Program offers ASA / Delta interview to UNDrs
10-31-2011, 02:13 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Another point.........What is the purpose for putting a UNDie thru this CRJ course while in college with only a couple hundred hours. The pilot is still going to have to instruct for a couple years and then when hired at ASA they will go thru the same training program that will new hires go thru that come from a CFI back ground. I don't see any purpose or value or this CRJ course while in college but I know UND is laughing all the way to the bank. What a sham.
10-31-2011, 02:18 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
I'd like to hear you talk some more about the "brilliant design by all" in terms of risk and reward for each participant.
Here's my quicktake:
Student: Risks ~$150K to prepare for a VERY narrow window of opportunity in a highly cyclical industry. If there are no jobs available (market shrinking) at graduation then the student takes on full financial risk without competitive tangible skills elsewhere in the industry. How long does it take to reach salary/student loan breakeven? Here's a calculator to help with the math (scroll down):
Airline Pilot Central - Handling College Loan Repayment
Financially, it would be a much much better choice to attend a tech school to become a plumber.
University: Risk is marketing to enough students to keep the college viable, very little long term exposure other than long term debt on operating assets. Shoulders zero responsibility to the student should they not get hired.
Airline: Zero risk to sign an agreement to offer conditional employment. The airlines can change the conditions on a whim to make graduates fall below the threshold of being competitive.
In another post you mentioned academic classes and simulators that teach how to start a jet engine. While those classes might be fine, keep in mind that they don't produce qualified and proficient airmen. There are currently thousands and thousands of qualified, high-time, experienced pilots on the sidelines because they don't want to fly for poverty wages. For you to throw a turd like this out for discussion and then sing it's praises is an insult.
Here's my quicktake:
Student: Risks ~$150K to prepare for a VERY narrow window of opportunity in a highly cyclical industry. If there are no jobs available (market shrinking) at graduation then the student takes on full financial risk without competitive tangible skills elsewhere in the industry. How long does it take to reach salary/student loan breakeven? Here's a calculator to help with the math (scroll down):
Airline Pilot Central - Handling College Loan Repayment
Financially, it would be a much much better choice to attend a tech school to become a plumber.
University: Risk is marketing to enough students to keep the college viable, very little long term exposure other than long term debt on operating assets. Shoulders zero responsibility to the student should they not get hired.
Airline: Zero risk to sign an agreement to offer conditional employment. The airlines can change the conditions on a whim to make graduates fall below the threshold of being competitive.
In another post you mentioned academic classes and simulators that teach how to start a jet engine. While those classes might be fine, keep in mind that they don't produce qualified and proficient airmen. There are currently thousands and thousands of qualified, high-time, experienced pilots on the sidelines because they don't want to fly for poverty wages. For you to throw a turd like this out for discussion and then sing it's praises is an insult.
I think it's the wave of the future in hiring civilian only pilots. With all the negative press from the likes of Renslow and others, the airlines can finally control, right from the beginning, who they hire and ensure they have a clean background and as a bonus to the airline, the candidate pays for it himself.
10-31-2011, 02:19 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
10-31-2011, 02:21 PM
#46
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Absolutely. Give me an experienced pilot who has several seasons of winter ops in ORD or LGA. I want to fly with the guy who can determine radar tops of a thunderstorm in his/her sleep (and share informed was around it). I want someone who has paid their dues working single engine cargo ops in Alaska.
There are thousands of these guys out there, the only thing is that they had the good sense not to do the job for poverty wages.
To be clear, the PAY FOR TRAINING scheme that you're suggesting is absolutely worthless if the goal is to produce a qualified and proficient line pilot.
10-31-2011, 02:29 PM
#48
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
I think it's the wave of the future in hiring civilian only pilots. With all the negative press from the likes of Renslow and others, the airlines can finally control, right from the beginning, who they hire and ensure they have a clean background and as a bonus to the airline, the candidate pays for it himself.
Should a pilot shortage become a reality, US airlines can follow the lead of Lufthansa's cadet program (or a number of other global cadet programs). They are effective and do produce a qualified pilot, although the US university programs aren't even close in the scope or quality. The other difference is that global cadet programs don't require a teenager to enter into a life of indentured servatude and debt in order to earn poverty wages.
10-31-2011, 02:54 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 389
. Aren't you already monitored, they used an A-F grading scale, then they averaged all those together to come up with this thing they called a GPA. UND still have that fancy laptop program up there? I remember renting a laptop for $1300 a year (including summers), they said that was going to make me a better pilot too.
10-31-2011, 02:57 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 389
I think it's the wave of the future in hiring civilian only pilots. With all the negative press from the likes of Renslow and others, the airlines can finally control, right from the beginning, who they hire and ensure they have a clean background and as a bonus to the airline, the candidate pays for it himself.
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