More press over our wages.
09-16-2011, 10:10 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Left or Right, Whatev'
Posts: 157
You regional guys are missing the point. You guys get a fair wage for the minimal training and experience you bring to the job. Regional F/O is an entry level position.
And...
$40k is still underpaid. I'm actually on 6th year rj fo pay...and it is still less than 40k, not by much but still less. I find it stupid how all the mainline pilots come on the regional threads and say things like "quit crying, leave of you don't like it". You're not the one having to do these jobs. If you big bad mainline pilots would stop giving away your scope, and flying till 65, we would not be having this conversation.
Obviously both of the above quotes are gross stereotypical , overly simplistic misrepresentations of the average regional or major airline pilot.
Bottom line, until there is an incentive to pay more, then airlines won't. The iron law of wages comes to mind and it's no different here.
"Caveat Emptor" We all knew what we were getting into and if you didn't then that's a problem you sorted out quickly.
09-16-2011, 10:39 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 474
It matters not a bit if we think we are underpaid or overpaid. The market determines our wages, with perhaps a little nudge by airline employee unions. As far as pilots are concerned, until this persistent, decades long oversupply of pilots ceases to exist, airline pilot wages will always be low, with continuing downward pressure. Until airline management is literally forced by a lack of an available pilot pool to raise wages or offer financial incentives nothing will change.
09-16-2011, 10:42 AM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
I know plenty of regional pilots with WAY more experience than mainline pilots but are the victims of some really bad career, seniority list timing. Does you're average mainline pilot have more experience? Of course, but don't discount the countless regional pilots either.
And...
Ok, we're getting into the Regional vs. Major pilot flame fest. Which burns through a few pages and posts of BS and resolves nothing.
Obviously both of the above quotes are gross stereotypical , overly simplistic misrepresentations of the average regional or major airline pilot.
Bottom line, until there is an incentive to pay more, then airlines won't. The iron law of wages comes to mind and it's no different here.
"Caveat Emptor" We all knew what we were getting into and if you didn't then that's a problem you sorted out quickly.
And...
Ok, we're getting into the Regional vs. Major pilot flame fest. Which burns through a few pages and posts of BS and resolves nothing.
Obviously both of the above quotes are gross stereotypical , overly simplistic misrepresentations of the average regional or major airline pilot.
Bottom line, until there is an incentive to pay more, then airlines won't. The iron law of wages comes to mind and it's no different here.
"Caveat Emptor" We all knew what we were getting into and if you didn't then that's a problem you sorted out quickly.
Doesn't matter the experience level. Fact is that regional F/O is an entry level job and pays entry level pay.
09-16-2011, 11:04 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,351
Your $49,000 figure for median is HOUSEHOLD median income. Take a 35,000 - 40,000 regional pilot married to a 20,000 per year taco bell cashier and they are making way above median household income. As far as "degree, specialized training, away from home, blah blah blah" now are you are just talking entitlements. Do your homework people and if you don't like the water then don't jump in. Quit if you don't like it and get over yourselves. If you think $35K-$45K per year jobs are a dime a dozen in the real world than you are really in need of a reality check. 
09-16-2011, 11:20 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Fifth floor, window
Posts: 290
While there is a point that a regional pilot now is an entry level job, perhaps more so than in 80's, but when regional pay is, for the most part, less now than what it was in the 80's it isn't a matter of it being an entry level job. What the market decides and such similar statements isn't like it is some force in the universe like gravity, a great deal of the wage problem is designed by people who have their aims and tend outsmart the the other people (IE ALPA, ET AL) who allegedly are looking out for the pilots.
And (I ask nicely) what might be of a regional pilots (or other pilots) entitlement? When it is said that a regional RJ FO making 40k and their spouse makes another 20K at Taco Bell, what exactly does that mean, RJ = Taco Bell? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
And (I ask nicely) what might be of a regional pilots (or other pilots) entitlement? When it is said that a regional RJ FO making 40k and their spouse makes another 20K at Taco Bell, what exactly does that mean, RJ = Taco Bell? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
09-16-2011, 11:46 AM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
While there is a point that a regional pilot now is an entry level job, perhaps more so than in 80's, but when regional pay is, for the most part, less now than what it was in the 80's it isn't a matter of it being an entry level job. What the market decides and such similar statements isn't like it is some force in the universe like gravity, a great deal of the wage problem is designed by people who have their aims and tend outsmart the the other people (IE ALPA, ET AL) who allegedly are looking out for the pilots.
And (I ask nicely) what might be of a regional pilots (or other pilots) entitlement? When it is said that a regional RJ FO making 40k and their spouse makes another 20K at Taco Bell, what exactly does that mean, RJ = Taco Bell? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
And (I ask nicely) what might be of a regional pilots (or other pilots) entitlement? When it is said that a regional RJ FO making 40k and their spouse makes another 20K at Taco Bell, what exactly does that mean, RJ = Taco Bell? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
You guys are missing the vital connection here. IF you want the RJ F/O to be considered NOT an entry level position, then will have to get NON entry level pilots to fill it and you will essentially lock out the CFIs who have traditionally filled the RJ F/O position.
You can't have it both ways. But that's entitlement for you, thinking you can have it both ways.
09-16-2011, 02:11 PM
#37
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 18
09-16-2011, 02:45 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,197
If you take $25/hour, after that technical training for an entry position, I'd say it is fair pay, or you wouldn't have taken it.
This thread ties it all together. 500 hour CFIs looking to get into the airline business, happy to get anything; while 6 year F/Os complain they aren't paid like mainline F/Os. The 6 year guy doesn't realize that the CFI is the cause of his pay issue.
Lastly, the killer--blaming the mainline guys for giving up scope and working til 65 for being greedy guys causing their stagnation. Seniority is just that--SENIORITY, the old guys feast, the young wait. And, if the mainline guys hadn't been forced into "giving up" (see BK 101), the RJ guys would not have benefited from the last ten years RJ hiring boom while the mainlines furloughed, shrank.
GF
This thread ties it all together. 500 hour CFIs looking to get into the airline business, happy to get anything; while 6 year F/Os complain they aren't paid like mainline F/Os. The 6 year guy doesn't realize that the CFI is the cause of his pay issue.
Lastly, the killer--blaming the mainline guys for giving up scope and working til 65 for being greedy guys causing their stagnation. Seniority is just that--SENIORITY, the old guys feast, the young wait. And, if the mainline guys hadn't been forced into "giving up" (see BK 101), the RJ guys would not have benefited from the last ten years RJ hiring boom while the mainlines furloughed, shrank.
GF
09-16-2011, 02:52 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
The fact is that age 65 was a payoff to the baby boomers and a yoke tied to the necks of those below them. Saying otherwise is misinformation. If you still want to retire at 60 then you can. However, it's enlightening how few of you do. Greed is greed and it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Your second vacation house is hurting someone starting a family.
Regionals were a stepping stone, now many are coming up on 5 or 6 year FO pay with no upgrade in sight. That is also fact. Many if not most of you at mainline had to put up with maybe 1-2 years of FO regional pay.
What many of those mainline pilots don't factor in is the utter stagnation and hopelessness of the regional ranks. You can't relate to it. When your time came to pay your dues the payoff was in sight. Now it's a mirage.
Regionals were a stepping stone, now many are coming up on 5 or 6 year FO pay with no upgrade in sight. That is also fact. Many if not most of you at mainline had to put up with maybe 1-2 years of FO regional pay.
What many of those mainline pilots don't factor in is the utter stagnation and hopelessness of the regional ranks. You can't relate to it. When your time came to pay your dues the payoff was in sight. Now it's a mirage.
09-16-2011, 03:08 PM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
If you take $25/hour, after that technical training for an entry position, I'd say it is fair pay, or you wouldn't have taken it.
This thread ties it all together. 500 hour CFIs looking to get into the airline business, happy to get anything; while 6 year F/Os complain they aren't paid like mainline F/Os. The 6 year guy doesn't realize that the CFI is the cause of his pay issue.
Lastly, the killer--blaming the mainline guys for giving up scope and working til 65 for being greedy guys causing their stagnation. Seniority is just that--SENIORITY, the old guys feast, the young wait. And, if the mainline guys hadn't been forced into "giving up" (see BK 101), the RJ guys would not have benefited from the last ten years RJ hiring boom while the mainlines furloughed, shrank.
GF
This thread ties it all together. 500 hour CFIs looking to get into the airline business, happy to get anything; while 6 year F/Os complain they aren't paid like mainline F/Os. The 6 year guy doesn't realize that the CFI is the cause of his pay issue.
Lastly, the killer--blaming the mainline guys for giving up scope and working til 65 for being greedy guys causing their stagnation. Seniority is just that--SENIORITY, the old guys feast, the young wait. And, if the mainline guys hadn't been forced into "giving up" (see BK 101), the RJ guys would not have benefited from the last ten years RJ hiring boom while the mainlines furloughed, shrank.
GF
You hit the nail on the head. Gotta love regional pilot fratricide.
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