The Juice

I would argue that someone who watches every dollar as someone who is good at managing their finances.

wrxpilot

Being cheap doesn't mean you are good at managing your finances, not by a long shot. I've known several cheap ass pilots that were absolutely horrific at managing their money.

I'll stand by my original statement: If you can't AFFORD to tip a buck or two, you probably aren't good at managing your finances. And you certainly don't have any class...

The Juice

Im glad that you have it all figured out. Im not advocating either position but your arrogance regarding this topic is laughable.

Sitting on your soap box, telling others that they "lack class" because they fail to follow the "wrxpilot" rules of finances tells me much more about you than those who choose not to tip van drivers.

asher888

I know this thread is based on a regional pilots income. However im speaking in principle. If a pilot were to make $140,000/ yr., that would be 7 x's the salary of a first year regional FO. If the expectation is that an FO tip a dollar to the van driver then it would be reasonable to expect a captain making $140,000 to tip 7 dollars...(I just made $20,000/ yr and $1 tip the standard). I know there is no way any captains are tipping 7 bucks per haul to and from the airport. So the FO tips a dollar to the driver, that ends up being 1% of his annual salary going towards the tip of a mandatory road trip (if you dont go, no sleep, no sleep no fly, no fly- fired = mandatory). I think we are missing the fact that this is a tradition passed down from other people. Just because its tradition doesnt make it gospel. My whole point is that its relative...be empathetic. Do what you feel, we cant judge others for what they decide to do or not do. We are only responsible for the choices we make.

hockeypilot44

Th

He didn't tip anyone the whole trip. I even brought it up to him, and he threw out every excuse on this board. I didn't argue with him, but I did remember him for it. He eventually called me for a recommendation, and I told him no. I can't in good faith recommend someone like that. It is what it is. Not tipping the hotel van drivers is cheap and classless.

contrails

I can see your point.

Sounds like he had a blanket policy of no tipping, ever, no exceptions.

That is quite a bit different from someone who has their own system (van on time, or lifted the bags, etc.) and tips based on that.

If 100% of flight crew had a blanket policy of no tipping, ever, no exceptions, like this guy did, I can't see why a van driver would ever be compelled to wait a few extra minutes for a flight crew vs. letting the next van get them.

As much as I don't really like the whole concept of tipping, in the USA it is abundantly obvious that a few different things are set up with it in mind and until that changes, that's the way it is.

jheath

Not all pilots make as much as you, sir. And I believe the name of this thread is "regional pilots tipping habits." Also, I tip all of those people you just listed when I can, despite the fact that they all probably make more than me. I can say with certainty that a pizza guy or bartender does, because those are the two jobs I've done personally. I made more annually doing those jobs part time than I do as a first year FO full time. I worked with a guy who took home over $60,000 driving for Domino's. So yes, technically pilots don't "depend" on tips only because society has, for whatever reason decided that we don't do that. But why do we tip those other people? Because their hourly wage is so low they need that tip to bring their income up to a respectable level? How many times do I need to say that they make more than I do!!! Do you still not see my point? Sometimes I just don't have it. I just don't, man. I've got no cash on me and less money in the bank than I can take out of an ATM. I also can't go borrow money from mommy or daddy. I resent the statement that that makes me classless. I think it makes me a hardworking first year regional FO paying my dues and doing what I can to get through until my longevity raise next year. There are many FOs for other companies who make less than I do.

EXACTLY! This is exactly my point. Those arguing that "it's just a buck" make enough money to where a buck honestly doesn't matter in the long run. I'm not terrible at managing my finances. If anything, I think I'm better at it than someone who makes significantly more money than I do. My take home is less than $1400 a month yet I still manage to pay rent, utilities, phone, car payment, crashpad, student loans, etc. I pack food on trips so I'm not frivolously spending $10 on airport food every meal. I'm very careful with how I spend my money because I have to be. I'm not out there carelessly dropping sums of cash on silly things every month because, when it comes down to it, the little money I have leftover is barely enough for me to buy groceries on my days off. I'm not jetting off to Monaco and putting it all on black.

Like I said, despite all of this, sometimes I'll still manage to find a buck for the van driver if I'm with a captain who chooses not to tip. However, I can guaran-damn-tee that if and when I ever upgrade and I'm flying with a first year FO or FAs, you bet your ass I'm tipping the driver for all of us.

UnlimitedAkro

If someone wants to tip a hotel van driver, fine. If someone does not want to tip a hotel van driver, fine. Many crew members tip some days, and not other days for any given number of reasons, and that is fine too.

Van drivers provide a service that is required by their hotel contract. If someone does not want to tip a van driver, it is their right. Just drop it, get a life, and move on. If someone really has to ask another crew member why they are not tipping a hotel van driver, that is more of a foul than someone not tipping.

wrxpilot

No, they lack class because they're too cheap to tip a van driver $1, and try to justify it with some lame excuse.

As far as finances, I didn't always have it figured out. When I got out of college, I had a lot of debt because of my own stupidity. I had school loans, credit card loans, a new car loan, and a new motorcycle loan. Stupid, stupid, stupid. After many years of hard work and sacrifice, I paid off my debt while paying cash for flight training. I am now debt free and had one heck of an education about managing my finances through that process.

What I don't get are people that never try to get out of debt, or they just say "screw it" and become lifetime slaves to the debt machine. I have no respect for that.

ewrbasedpilot

Interesting comments...........that could come back and HAUNT you. Let's say the FO in question gets a job at a place YOU want to work. Now it's YOU asking for a recommendation. Hmmmmmmmm, do you ask him if he's the ONLY person you know there? What do you think his reply to you should be? I'm only playing devils advocate here because this is a VERY small industry and you could actually hurt yourself for these "views". I'm not saying if you're right or you're wrong. My story? Back when I was an FO flying for commuters (early 90's btw), I always tipped............until I started hearing van drivers/taxi drivers tell their stories..............and then the tips stopped. One crew driver (in PVD) said she used her "tip money" to fund an annual FIRST CLASS trip for a WEEK for her and her family each year to go to Disney Land in Florida. (Something I could only DREAM about doing). Another van driver (ITH) said his wife was a senior professor at Cornell and that he did various jobs at the hotel and made a very nice "supplemental income" in addition to his wifes BIG salary. A taxi driver told us about his FIVE RACE HORSES and how much it cost him to keep them in private stalls and for their daily feed/training.............. I was making $17,000 a year before taxes, working 23 days a month.........sharing a crashpad with 16 other pilots, NO 401K/retirement plan, and poor benefits...... I realized that ALL those folks were living way beyond my means, and I was in essence, giving them my retirement money!!!! I had NO life and was enhancing theirs in the process!!! Now..........I'm doing fine today, so I tip well. But seriously folks, if you don't have the money, then don't tip. I don't know your circumstances, but if you tell me you have two airplanes, send your kids to private schools and own a beach house, then you have NO RIGHT to complain that you can't afford a $1. I don't judge a person if they tip since I don't know their "situation". Just be careful slamming someone because they don't tip..........it could come back to haunt you.