Regional Pilots tipping habits
09-03-2011, 07:46 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
Well...yes, no, maybe--usually not (for me at least). I was all on board with this idea for the first few years, until I stopped paying someone else to do my taxes and started doing them myself. I realized the CPA, who did her best to keep everything as legal as possible, never really got all of those 'van tips' to count as deductions. Turns out I could not do it either.
The problem: I was/still am a regional airline FO that is supporting a wife and child and barely hanging on financially...you think I own a home? Of course not. Because I am not a home owner and already have two dependents under me, I must take the normal standard deduction (if I remember my terminology from the past spring). So in other words, I really never exceed that deduction threshold each year. All of that money I spend on uniform stuff, flashlights, dry cleaning--and of course van tips, doesn't really make a dent in my taxes, or returns so to speak. I am not a tax expert in any way, but I found that for people in my situation, the whole mentality of it being a deductible expense is really sort of a facade.
If I'm doing something wrong and missing the boat with this stuff, by all means someone speak up and tell me how I can claim this extra $200 or so each year.
The problem: I was/still am a regional airline FO that is supporting a wife and child and barely hanging on financially...you think I own a home? Of course not. Because I am not a home owner and already have two dependents under me, I must take the normal standard deduction (if I remember my terminology from the past spring). So in other words, I really never exceed that deduction threshold each year. All of that money I spend on uniform stuff, flashlights, dry cleaning--and of course van tips, doesn't really make a dent in my taxes, or returns so to speak. I am not a tax expert in any way, but I found that for people in my situation, the whole mentality of it being a deductible expense is really sort of a facade.
If I'm doing something wrong and missing the boat with this stuff, by all means someone speak up and tell me how I can claim this extra $200 or so each year.
Nope, unless you own a business, or have a sizeable mortgage (with accompanying interest payments) as an individual you really don't get anything but that standard deduction. Trying to do things for the "tax writeoff" are just a waste.
09-03-2011, 07:58 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
FSU, you're on first year pay. You can't afford to tip, and you shouldn't feel bad about it.
For the guys who can afford it and still refuse to tip someone who provides good service, all I can say is that's their choice, but karma is a *****.
For the guys who can afford it and still refuse to tip someone who provides good service, all I can say is that's their choice, but karma is a *****.
09-03-2011, 08:01 PM
#95
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 15
This is what is wrong with this country. First **** poor service, then we say nothing and eat it like tripe? Speak up man! All we do is condition the next employee to slack every time we accept this behavior. It happens everywhere in our industry: The ramp rushing crews, no ground power, air, lavs, ice, grooming, rude gate agents who broom jumpseaters, disrespect the flight crews (and Captain), fail to deliver the final paperwork, etc, etc, etc. Van drivers who are rude, run late, drive like felons, and generally act like we owe them something.
And all we do all day is dutifully suck it up? Please! Fear of complaining is our greatest downfall. Customer service is dead in this country. Speak up people, maybe the rest of us will get some decent service!
And all we do all day is dutifully suck it up? Please! Fear of complaining is our greatest downfall. Customer service is dead in this country. Speak up people, maybe the rest of us will get some decent service!
09-03-2011, 10:15 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 306
I don't think I've seen a more divisive topic in my entire time reading these forums.
For what it's worth, which isn't much, I tend to be pretty much in the middle of both arguments here, which is why I tried to make a lame joke to diffuse the situation. In college I both bartended and drove pizzas, so I tend to tip no less than 20% in those situations now, unless the service is exceptionally poor.
I'm now a first year commuting FO making just enough to pay my bills and have enough left over to take my girlfriend out to dinner whenever I get to see her once a month. My first trips on IOE, I was paired with captains who, when the bags were coming off the van, quite generously reached into their wallets and pulled out a few bucks to tip for the whole crew. Now, on the line, my last two trips I've been with captains who grabbed their bags and walked away without so much as a thank you. In these situations I've felt compelled to pull out a dollar and give it to the guy. There have been times when I haven't had cash on me, but if I have a single, it's more than likely going his way out of sheer courtesy. Also, the times I don't have cash, I do my best to load my own bags, but we all know sometimes the guy sets up the perfect blocking position and prevents this. If he loads my bags he's providing an additional service however there are some times I'd like to or need to decline that service, like when a guy just starts washing your car's windshield at a stop light even if you politely ask him to stop. However, back to my original point, much in the same vane as a captain offering to buy the first round on a long overnight, I see him/her tipping for the crew as a classy move, and while he's by no means duty bound to do so, I find that in general, the captains who do that seem to exhibit the types of qualities in most other professional aspects that I learn the most from and hope to someday imitate. There is a clear correlation.
So yes, I do tip whenever possible. All of that being said, as an FO on first year pay (and pretty above average first year pay at that), it's difficult. It's really difficult. And I'm not even trying to pay for a wife or kid. If you do the math, lets say I do four 4 day trips in a month. That adds up to 6 hotel vans each. So if I'm tipping a buck per van, that's $24 a month, or $288 in a year. My first year guarantee is worth $23,328 meaning I'd be spending slightly over 1% of my annual income on tips. That doesn't include the fact that we all probably ride a shuttle to and from the employee parking lot. So call that an extra $2 per trip. Also, for those of us who commute and require crashpads but don't have cars in base sometimes have to pay and/or tip that source of transportation (for me it's $2 per ride to or from)... That's approaching 2% of my annual pay. My problem is I don't know quite how to rank this in terms of cost. In searching for other similar expenses, I've found that I spend the same 2% annually on airport parking in the city from which I commute. Compare that to 14% I spend on my crashpad.
So all I'm doing here is trying to calculate at what point can I justify being cheap vs being smart. The truth is, as a first year FO, most of the van drivers probably do make more than me. I provide a very similar service as they do only over much greater distances and much higher altitudes yet no one calls passengers cheap for not tipping their pilots. In fact, such a concept would almost be ludicrous. Why? I make about as much as a waiter or bartender does on hourly. And while a few hundred bucks a year might not mean that much to someone who credits that in a nice long turn, that's about a week's worth of pay after taxes for me. An entire week of my year working just to tip the driver who may in fact already make more money than me. And yes, I understand that a lack of tipping might cause worse service. I know because as a pizza delivery driver on a run with multiple orders, I would save the known lousy tippers for last insuring they got cold food. It was immature, counterproductive, and only served to perpetuate a cycle. I allowed my performance to slide because I felt slighted and/or underpaid. I can't do that anymore though even though I'm constantly just as slighted and underpaid and that's because my job now has a greater consequence and I'm a professional. Just saying, while fully admitting I've been guilty of it in the past, the van drivers are professionals too, and the fact that they would do their job worse because of a lack of tips is a lousy excuse. We're all underpaid. Do we purposely delay flights or make the situation uncomfortable for our passengers? Of course not.
So while I more times than not try to tip if I can and if not I absolutely feel like a cheap piece of **** for stiffing the guy out of a buck, the truth is some of us just can't afford it. This is why I say I say I can absolutely see both sides of the argument. Both sides seem to be so passionate about whichever point they're arguing. I feel like this debate is like most things in life: If either side bothered to really try and see it from the other guy's perspective, maybe the differences in opinion wouldn't be so stark.
For what it's worth, which isn't much, I tend to be pretty much in the middle of both arguments here, which is why I tried to make a lame joke to diffuse the situation. In college I both bartended and drove pizzas, so I tend to tip no less than 20% in those situations now, unless the service is exceptionally poor.
I'm now a first year commuting FO making just enough to pay my bills and have enough left over to take my girlfriend out to dinner whenever I get to see her once a month. My first trips on IOE, I was paired with captains who, when the bags were coming off the van, quite generously reached into their wallets and pulled out a few bucks to tip for the whole crew. Now, on the line, my last two trips I've been with captains who grabbed their bags and walked away without so much as a thank you. In these situations I've felt compelled to pull out a dollar and give it to the guy. There have been times when I haven't had cash on me, but if I have a single, it's more than likely going his way out of sheer courtesy. Also, the times I don't have cash, I do my best to load my own bags, but we all know sometimes the guy sets up the perfect blocking position and prevents this. If he loads my bags he's providing an additional service however there are some times I'd like to or need to decline that service, like when a guy just starts washing your car's windshield at a stop light even if you politely ask him to stop. However, back to my original point, much in the same vane as a captain offering to buy the first round on a long overnight, I see him/her tipping for the crew as a classy move, and while he's by no means duty bound to do so, I find that in general, the captains who do that seem to exhibit the types of qualities in most other professional aspects that I learn the most from and hope to someday imitate. There is a clear correlation.
So yes, I do tip whenever possible. All of that being said, as an FO on first year pay (and pretty above average first year pay at that), it's difficult. It's really difficult. And I'm not even trying to pay for a wife or kid. If you do the math, lets say I do four 4 day trips in a month. That adds up to 6 hotel vans each. So if I'm tipping a buck per van, that's $24 a month, or $288 in a year. My first year guarantee is worth $23,328 meaning I'd be spending slightly over 1% of my annual income on tips. That doesn't include the fact that we all probably ride a shuttle to and from the employee parking lot. So call that an extra $2 per trip. Also, for those of us who commute and require crashpads but don't have cars in base sometimes have to pay and/or tip that source of transportation (for me it's $2 per ride to or from)... That's approaching 2% of my annual pay. My problem is I don't know quite how to rank this in terms of cost. In searching for other similar expenses, I've found that I spend the same 2% annually on airport parking in the city from which I commute. Compare that to 14% I spend on my crashpad.
So all I'm doing here is trying to calculate at what point can I justify being cheap vs being smart. The truth is, as a first year FO, most of the van drivers probably do make more than me. I provide a very similar service as they do only over much greater distances and much higher altitudes yet no one calls passengers cheap for not tipping their pilots. In fact, such a concept would almost be ludicrous. Why? I make about as much as a waiter or bartender does on hourly. And while a few hundred bucks a year might not mean that much to someone who credits that in a nice long turn, that's about a week's worth of pay after taxes for me. An entire week of my year working just to tip the driver who may in fact already make more money than me. And yes, I understand that a lack of tipping might cause worse service. I know because as a pizza delivery driver on a run with multiple orders, I would save the known lousy tippers for last insuring they got cold food. It was immature, counterproductive, and only served to perpetuate a cycle. I allowed my performance to slide because I felt slighted and/or underpaid. I can't do that anymore though even though I'm constantly just as slighted and underpaid and that's because my job now has a greater consequence and I'm a professional. Just saying, while fully admitting I've been guilty of it in the past, the van drivers are professionals too, and the fact that they would do their job worse because of a lack of tips is a lousy excuse. We're all underpaid. Do we purposely delay flights or make the situation uncomfortable for our passengers? Of course not.
So while I more times than not try to tip if I can and if not I absolutely feel like a cheap piece of **** for stiffing the guy out of a buck, the truth is some of us just can't afford it. This is why I say I say I can absolutely see both sides of the argument. Both sides seem to be so passionate about whichever point they're arguing. I feel like this debate is like most things in life: If either side bothered to really try and see it from the other guy's perspective, maybe the differences in opinion wouldn't be so stark.
Last edited by jheath; 09-03-2011 at 10:29 PM.
09-03-2011, 10:47 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
I tipped the van driver if they were on time, every time.
If they were late then I made it a point not to tip them. It bothered me that the rest of the crew would complain and complain and then shell out a dollar for that goof. You're just encouraging a bad driver and insulting the good one that went out of their way to be on time. Grow a pair and stiff those guys.
If they were late then I made it a point not to tip them. It bothered me that the rest of the crew would complain and complain and then shell out a dollar for that goof. You're just encouraging a bad driver and insulting the good one that went out of their way to be on time. Grow a pair and stiff those guys.
09-03-2011, 10:58 PM
#98
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
There are times when the van driver has NO control what so ever over whether or not he/she is there for your pickup. I have zero idea how everybody automatically correlates late van to fault of the driver.
Especially if it's the type of hotel that only has one van, maybe a crew is late, they're on a short overnight, the van time transit time is maybe 25+ mins plus round trip. And that crew simply doesn't feel like getting on the van and waiting for the later crew to arrive and pressures the van driver to take them to the hotel. If the an driver waits and ticks them off, no tip from them, right? If the van driver takes them to the hotel, maybe they'll tip, maybe they're cheap bastards and don't tip. But by doing so, he'll be late for your pickup, and won't get tipped. etc, etc, etc.
Seen it happen more times than I can count.
Especially if it's the type of hotel that only has one van, maybe a crew is late, they're on a short overnight, the van time transit time is maybe 25+ mins plus round trip. And that crew simply doesn't feel like getting on the van and waiting for the later crew to arrive and pressures the van driver to take them to the hotel. If the an driver waits and ticks them off, no tip from them, right? If the van driver takes them to the hotel, maybe they'll tip, maybe they're cheap bastards and don't tip. But by doing so, he'll be late for your pickup, and won't get tipped. etc, etc, etc.
Seen it happen more times than I can count.
09-04-2011, 03:56 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
At my (non-regional) company the Captain tips van drivers, and is reimbursed by the company, up to $6 a day. If I'm in a van without a Captain, I tip for myself and the rest of the crew. A buck a bag. A little more if we're in Africa. A little less in Europe. I always carry local cash for this purpose. If its a place I haven't been to before, I carry US singles, and tip with them.
I was a first year regional FO twice. You can not make ends meet on that money. Do not sweat tipping. But remember when you get your fourth stripe and make up for it. If you are a Captain anywhere you should be carrying a stack of ones in your bag(enough for your whole trip) and covering your crew.
Jayhawk - Do you have overnight trips? You should be deducting standard M&IE for each overnight. I think it is $56 for US locations. That's a $10,080 deduction for 15 nights a month. If you go to high cost destinations it could be much more. You could use the standard deduction or a location specific deduction.
Per Diem Rates
Mortgage and kids or not, first year FOs probably shouldn't owe any taxes.
I was a first year regional FO twice. You can not make ends meet on that money. Do not sweat tipping. But remember when you get your fourth stripe and make up for it. If you are a Captain anywhere you should be carrying a stack of ones in your bag(enough for your whole trip) and covering your crew.
Jayhawk - Do you have overnight trips? You should be deducting standard M&IE for each overnight. I think it is $56 for US locations. That's a $10,080 deduction for 15 nights a month. If you go to high cost destinations it could be much more. You could use the standard deduction or a location specific deduction.
Per Diem Rates
Mortgage and kids or not, first year FOs probably shouldn't owe any taxes.
09-04-2011, 04:30 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
I do agree with the need to tip. However, playing devils advocate, do you think the van drivers, hair cutters, or waitresses of the world tip the baggage handlers, flight attendants, or pilots that provide good service to them? There are plenty of low paid crew members/ramp personnel out there that could use tips for income.
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