jetstream11

This may have already been discussed and I missed it but I heard this the other day and am looking to verify.

For all new pncl pilots(9e, xj, 9l) who were not included on the ISL are the fences still applicable? I heard that if you were hired after the list that they were not, and you would be able to bid any position you could hold. Regardless of quotas being filled or not.

Thanks for the help!

cleared2land

Fences are only for CA positions. That may make it a mute point for new hires. By the time they go to upgrade, I am sure they will be gone or won't apply.

Bartok

You are correct, the fences do not apply to people not included in the SLI.

The fences are full on the 200 and 900 at XJ and 9E right now anyway, Colgan is close on the Saabs (if they would do just a Saab upgrade vacancy alone, it would probably fill up) and the Q400 is a pipedream for anyone but Colgan guys.

Al Czervik

A PCL new hire will probably be able to upgrade sooner at Colgan than a 5 year PCL FO.....

flyingreasemnky

That's not true. In Bloch's award, it states that the fence only lasts as long as there are no other premerger pilots left to upgrade or 5 years. So as long as all the premerger pilots get upgraded or can be upgraded than the 9e pilots can jump over as much as they want. So all premerger pilots are still ahead of post merger pilots for upgrade.

Also, there really aren't that many premerger pilots on the Colgan side waiting to upgrade so I don't think it will take any where near five years.

Lone Palm

There are plenty of XJ guys waiting for upgrade so I would imagine it's going to be awhile if any 9E guys have their heart set on the infamous Saab-o-Matic.

flyingreasemnky

Yeah, but XJ loses its fence on the Saab as it loses the Saabs in DTW, MEM, MSP and LGA. So they will be competing for the upgrade in seniority order with the 9e guys. I am willing to bet money that as long as we don't lose the Saabs on the Colgan side you will see 9e pilots being able to bid over within a year or two.

They already lost quite a few spots with the closing of Memphis as a Saab base.

jheath

I guess we're getting into semantics here, but aren't pretty much all regional FOs just waiting to upgrade? I know I don't want to sit in this seat forever.

Bartok

The key to this discussion is the interpretation of this part of the award:

"For a period of five years beginning with the submission of the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 129 Saab-340 captains. No pre-merger Mesaba pilot may be awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position unless Colgan pilots maintain 152 Saab-340 captains. Minimum captain positions for Mesaba pilots will be permanently reduced by an equal amount for any reductions in Saab Captain positions in Minneapolis, Memphis, Detroit and New York. Minimum captain positions for Colgan pilots will be permanently reduced by an amount equal to any reductions in Washington-Dulles, Boston, Charleston and Houston.

8. If there are insufficient bidders for one pre-merger pilot group for a posted vacancy on one side of the fence during the five-year period, unfilled vacancies may be filled by pilots from the other pre-merger airline[s] in seniority order."

The way I read it is no premerger 9E will be awarded Saab captain until after all XJ and 9L premergers pass on it.

FlyJSH

Why would they? It's only a turboprop.

Don't you know, it's us mixmaster drivers who dream of flying jets.