Originally Posted by Lone Palm

If you just read it as is, it simply means there can be no bump and flush due to how the ISL turned out. Aircraft being parked or added to a base or taken off property and subsequently causing displacements is a different situation. As with most rulings they are up to one's interpretation.

Originally Posted by MunkyButtr

My career expectations did not include 8 years in the right seat. We were starting upgrades at 25 a month until the ISL stalled everything. I was less than 80 away which puts me in class next month. Yes we were put on ice and yes it had been six years, but things were moving. We were making headway last summer until something happened... what was that? Oh yes, Corp bought Mesaba which was why negotiations stalled, thats obvious enough. We start knocking sections out and as soon as it comes to pay and scheduling we get frozen and then a week later we buy Mesaba. And yes, it is "we" because before there was Corp there was Inc and who earned all the money for Corp? We didn't lose airplanes because of performance. If you remember, Pinnacle was the number one performing airline in the country next to Hawaiin for nearly four years running. We gave you guys 200's because it was in the Northwest agreement that if we didn't have a pilot agreement then planes left. I tell you what, it was the best thing that could have happened to us because we didn't have the pilots to fly them anyways. If you'll also remember we got all the planes that were originally coming to us. We were slated to get 16 900's. How many did we get? Those Freedom birds only came to us while we were waiting on our own from the Montreal. Its not news that the 200 is on its way out, but the agreement is until 2017, thats five more years... the extent of these fences. So don't get too excited when you can throw that in someones face when in five years the fences will be gone and the ISL gains by 9E will finally be realized. Why was it that you guys were so fat on pilots? Maybe because YOU GUYS were supposed to get the airplanes that went to ASA, not us. The planes we had were temporary. You guys hired for the planes that went somewhere else, why did you guys not get them? Why was Delta so eager to get rid of you guys? Mesaba was the next Comair, Corp found flying for your airplanes orginially scheduled for the scrap yard. Do your research, Pinnacle didn't lose money until we bought you guys. Your words are marked my friend. Not only does the 200 agreement end, but so do the fences. I don't think you realize just how close XJ was to chopping off the bottom of its list indefinitely.

Originally Posted by typical41

This is going to be one disfunctional pilot group. A lot of 8-10 year FO's, combined with <1 year captain upgrades. My upgrade is probably going to be at least 8.5 years. Time will tell!

All I have to say is, I feel really bad for the 900 Fo's in Atlanta with Pinnacle. Assuming a certain someone passes upgrade, they are about to have to fly with a guy that has almost crashed numerous airplanes. I can't say this about anyone but him, I would not even let my family non-rev on one of his flights, even it got them(or myself) back home for Christmas! It won't be hard to figure out who it is after looking at the last realignment award. Honestly though, my fellow pilot brothers and sisters, please be careful when you fly with this pilot (his name will spread quickly through the ranks, once he gets on line (<<--and that is a big if). Good luck!!

Originally Posted by 9eflyer

As a long time lurker without an account, its time to chime in. Our own committee is the problem. Not Bloch, not XJ, and not 9L.

-Our own committee recognized us having so few captains. It was in their final proposal. Ask them for it and it will show we had less than 650 captains.
-Our own committee proposed to put every single TP captain below all Pinnacle pilots. How can we possibly now argue that we want TP captain positions when we proposed all of them be below us on the list? We told Bloch by doing that that we don't want the TP captain positions
-Our own committee proposed one single fence. It was for 9L on the Qs. The Qs that we bought.


Our own committee was the problem in this ordeal. If you want to know why I voted for an XJ rep, this is the reason. I cannot imagine being represented by our own any longer.

Oh, by the way, the whole "no displacements due to implementation" means no bump and flush, or also known as a system rebid. Nice try but this last realignment looks legit.

We are screwed.

Originally Posted by 9eflyer

As a long time lurker without an account, its time to chime in. Our own committee is the problem. Not Bloch, not XJ, and not 9L.

-Our own committee recognized us having so few captains. It was in their final proposal. Ask them for it and it will show we had less than 650 captains.
-Our own committee proposed to put every single TP captain below all Pinnacle pilots. How can we possibly now argue that we want TP captain positions when we proposed all of them be below us on the list? We told Bloch by doing that that we don't want the TP captain positions
-Our own committee proposed one single fence. It was for 9L on the Qs. The Qs that we bought.


Our own committee was the problem in this ordeal. If you want to know why I voted for an XJ rep, this is the reason. I cannot imagine being represented by our own any longer.

Oh, by the way, the whole "no displacements due to implementation" means no bump and flush, or also known as a system rebid. Nice try but this last realignment looks legit.

We are screwed.

Originally Posted by Bartok

It's not straight forward.

And the only way I see to handle it is for the company to absorb secondaries and to staff up to contractual levels.

The Saabs are going away at XJ and people will have displacement rights.

Originally Posted by 9eflyer

Look back at the bids. For a year and a half prior the annoucement, we did not have a single vacancy for jet captains, only downgrades. To say that big upgrades were coming is pure speculation.