CriticalMach

Actually he does have a valid point as far as complacency is concerned.

rickair7777

That's a separate issue, it should not be addressed by firing all pilots who have over 2000 hours.

Actually that first 1500 hours in GA usually affords one the opportunity get scared poop-less a few times. That sort of early experience helps you to avoid complacency for the rest of your life. But you're unlikely to learn those lessons (or acquire command skills) in the right seat of an airliner.

EvilMonkey

My .02 cents...

The type of flying you do has a big impact on how you will behave and react when put into a 121 environment.

Take a 500 hour kid who's been flying well maintained aircraft on cloudless days during training and flight instructing at a puppy mill vs. a kid who's been flying 50 year old cessna's building time flying skydivers or traffic watch in questionable weather and ever-changing conditions (please forgive my run-on sentence.) The puppy mill kid will do great in the perfect sim world and have a lot more problems when unexpected things start to happen in the "real" world. A lot of it comes down to the confidence in your own abilities that your flying experience has fostered in you.

johnso29

It absolutely would. As would teaching approaches in IMC, getting into ice & already knowing how to get out, and talking to FSS en route in order to make it around thunderstorms.

It's called gaining situational awareness. Unfortunately, Mr. Renslow lacked SA on that fateful evening. So did the pilots if AF 447. Both of those PIC's came from a non CFI environment. Our hands get held in the US 121 environment, but not in the Part 91 environment. Flight Instruction taught me an incredible amount of situational awareness.

squaretail

.... rant deleted .... the commentary below is still valid...

This thread is teetering on the edge of stupidity.

DirectTo

There is a massive difference between teaching stalls and flying into ice and picking through storms (not something your average instructor will be doing in light singles I'll bet).

It taught me some as well, but not nearly as much as 135 flying did.

FlyJSH

Add to that, statistically, 34 year old pilots have the lowest accident rate. So, if we combine age with your observations, the only pilots that should be allowed in an airliner are 30 to 38 year old NON ATP rated folks with 250 to 7000 hours. Makes perfect sense to me.

j1b3h0

Gentlemen: I guess what I was asking is for examples of situations Captains have witnessed during which the inexperience of a First Officer somehow made the situation less safe. I know everyone has an opinion. Another example would be of a pilot who was hired with extraordinarily low time and even after he/she upgraded was demonstrably less safe. I'll be the first to admit that despite my strong-held opinion about experience levels required, in almost 15000 hours as a Captain, I can't point squarely at ten situations, during which I shared the cockpit with a really low timer and felt really compromised.
One situation I remember (not so much safety related) happened when I commanded a night, CRJ flight from DFW-XNA. Because of a small line of t-storms coming in from the NW, we were filed to Little Rock and then, after a 90 degree left turn, straight to XNA. I hadn't flown with the FO, in part, because he was a new-hire and had just completed IOE. Told me he had 480 hrs. or something like that. Didn't seem to slow him down much: I mean the lad had all the confidence of a Christian with 4 aces. Well, I was the PF, and once we leveled of at 270, up around Hot Springs, I started watching the weather off toward XNA. Even took a turn and a couple sweeps of the radar - didn't look too threatening, so "Ask center for direct XNA". Well 15 minutes later, the whole airplane was glowing blue with st. elmos and we're in honest-to-god moderate turbulence, not to mention the odd lightening flashes out the window. I was thinking 'Gee, I must have impressed the heck out'a this kid with my decision making acumen. Sheepishly, I look over at him. He looks back at me with a great big grin and says "Cool!" Clearly, we were not on the same sheet of music.

nguy9840

Get off your high horses and be a good CAPT. Your new low time FO made it thru training and HR interviewing process and very much want to tune his skills with people who can add to his experience level. Be a professional and mentor when the opportunites arises. Otherwise you will be the first to have a accident with a low time FO and your leadership skills needs improvement if you survive. It is what it is.

subrat

A couple days ago I flew with a 16k hour capt....I had to babysit him/her about his/her airspeed the whole flight! If I wasnt watching we could of easily hit the shaker or redline....Mabey he/she was just too old or lacked basic airmanship...A capt with that kind of experience just needs a plane with autothrottles not a low time FO... The Colgan crash would of been avoided if that experienced crew had a autothrottle to lean on...Many people in the 121 world lack basic airmanship...The problem with the airlines is that these Capts will never be let go until the day they crash a plane....Certain people should not be in the cockpit and thats includes all flight hours.