QCappy

We wouldn't have any airplanes left at Horizon

fosters

Just because one is larger doesn't mean they are different. They are both subcontractors. XJT is publicly held, AWAC is a private company. They work based on a fee-for-departure type setup, which is wildly profitable for the regional carrier.

Maybe not from your standpoint, but to 2 of my friends its significant (who were recently hired). To the bottom 650-700 pilots it could suck (and have ramifications on the others, ie back to reserve, CAPT to FO, etc.).

Apparently those at XJT thing they are immune because their airline flies to all parts of the country and to mexico and canada. Maybe your company is immune because it's not a "niche" carrier (whatever that means)? Please.

I sincerely hope your management is able to pull together a plan, we need as many good carriers in this business as we can get. But lets look at the track record here. All the "good" carriers are losing contracts, and the bottom feeders are picking up the slack (mesa, chq, go jets, etc.).

Keep in mind I'm very pessimistic (that way I'm never disappointed) and we'll all know how this plays out in the next few months, right? I thought I remember reading that chautauqua is placing their aircraft sometime starting in January? But if I were in the bottom 1/4 of ExpressJet's senority list I personally would be warming up the resume printer, but that's just me. Hell, even though I don't see a furlough in my immediate future I still am applying to other jobs to keep my hand in. You never know.

Ottopilot

If I was number one at Express, I'd be sending out resumes. Who wants to stay there? Yes, I know, I worked there 9 years and was in the top 50. I stayed there 7 years longer than I expected. Express has peeked. I would not want to plan a career there. Do you think it will exist when you turn 60?

JoeyMeatballs

Very easy for you to sit there in the CAL 757/767 (Congrats by the way thats pretty badass) and say how Expressjet has peaked and everybody should leave there blah blah blah. I am going there in hopes of one day moving on to greener pastures but the time between then and now it makes sense to work for a regional that is considred one of the best isnt it? Nobody and I mean nobody (except for a select few) knows whats going on the the 69 a/c. When this info is made public than things may seem a little more concrete but the fact is that you can'y go from Instructing to CAL or any other major/national carrier until you do some time in the regionals so why not try to spend that time working for a good company making decent pay (I Know its low, but its one of the better payers in the regional ind.) would rather spend my time at XJT than at Colgan, Its not that Colgan was so bad, its just that 8 legs a day going to the same 3 airports gets very stale, as well as broken A/C, no perdiem, no contract etc.... (Is that better than no job at all, of course) but until Expressjet starts to furlough I am happy that I am making the move, and only time will tell if it is.............. Anyway just my own thoughts I know I am passing up an impending upgrade but 1,000PIC Turbine is not like the 100 multi as a CFI.

Ottopilot

I wan't bad mouthing Express; its a great company. It HAS peaked. I'm am saying that the majors are better. If you have a choice of regionals to work for, choose Express. If you have a choice of leaving Express for a Major airline, do it. Express pilots should want to move on and up. I've talked to many Ex-Express guys that made it to Southwest and Airtran and they love it. Continental, Fedex, and UPS would be good too. Get your time and get out. Good luck.

JoeyMeatballs

I miss understood you I apalogize Good post by the way

freezingflyboy

Economies of scale my man, economies of scale. The sunk cost (meaning overhead, facilities, training, etc) of operating 70 airplanes is not significantly less than operating 200 airplanes. But the oppurtunity for revenue is a lot greater.



I am one of the bottom 650-700 and I am not worried. Guess how much sleep I've lost over the 69 airplanes. If we get furloughed, we get furloughed. So what? But I am not going to worry about it till it happens. And you have no idea what it does for moral when you company gives the big ******* YOU their big airline partner when they ask for cost reductions. How many other companies would say "yeah, we'll try and do it cheaper but not at the expense of our employees?" If I am furloughed in January, I will have enjoyed the ride, I'll dust off the resume and move on.

And niche carrier means that you have a closely defined, specific purpose, but you do it well. Similar to a Horizon or Skyway-type airline. Look it up.

Sorry to hear you are so pessimistic. Hope its not too hard to enjoy life when the sky is always falling. Ive always found that flexibility beats pessimism any day of the week.

Eric Stratton

I think you need to step away from the kool aid. xjt and awac are the exact same type of company except that xjt is bigger right now.

you think having 25% of your guaranteed flying taken away isn't that significant, wow. remember that continental could only take away 25% and probably would have taken more if they could. in another 3 years they can take some more again.

fosters

With that reasoning you should have been able to keep your costs down enough so that Republic didn't win the RFP for CAL's flying. Republic has a total of 157 airplanes on property, you have 274. That's 74% more airplanes. Economies of scale didn't help you on the Midwest flying (it had nothing to do with cost in your case). The delta flying is up for grabs though. If you keep the airplanes in the states, that's where my money is going right now. But I ain't buying any XJT stock .

That's great for you. Now imagine all the people coming on board that move to base, have a family, etc. Do you think they'll just be able to "move on"? What if you have a mortage? Defaulting sucks.

I seem to remember two who did that. AWAC was one. The other was ACA aka Indepence Air. We all know how that turned out.

If it helps you sleep at night to call horizon and awac a niche carrier go for it. Make sure you refer to yourself as a "major" pilot because you company brings in over $1bil in revenue while you're at it .

We all do the same thing, we operate on a fee-for-departure setup where our income is guaranteed. Big or small, that's the way our companies make their money. Same concept.

Horizon, to my understanding, shares in the expenses of its routes. Great Lakes (while small) also does this while operating a code share with United. Same with regions air (under its EAS routes), but I believe they are an American connection carrier and soon to be continental.

Dude it's great. Never being disappointed allows you to always be happy with what you have .

That being said, do I honestly think XJT will have to sublease those aircraft? I really don't know. I know the management team at XJT is top notch, they are a good company with great statistics (one time zero zero, completion, mx, etc.). BUT, if I was a CFI looking to go somewhere, I WOULD NOT chose XJT based on the fact that the company *most likely* isn't poised to grow any time soon. No growth and low attrition (because XJT is a good carrier) = LONG upgrade time and a long time at the bottom of 2500+ pilot group list. Ask a 3 year eagle FO how he likes being on reserve still.

Who knows, they could be the next skywest, and take over the world. But you'll have to get 70 and 90 seaters first. The 50 (and less) seat market is saturated.

U-I pilot

In many respects I agree with you. Making a career at a regional is not ideal and likely not what people had in mind when entering this career path. However, when going through training I met more than a few sim instructors that plan to stay for various reasons. But the Primary reason I found was this:

They got here, things were flowing good, then the 9/11 slow down held them here 3-5 years extra before they had the times to move to CAL, SWA, UPS, FDX etc. Now they look to make the move.... At XJT they are pushing $100k with a schedule they can basically choose, and NO real chance of furlough. A very stable/decent living and having a nice schedule is a bonus too.

To give that up for: Bottom of the seniority list, basically 5-10 years of a pay cut, reserve, etc is a tough life choice to make if you have purchased a home or started a real life. Not to mention if the major "slows down" or worse yet furloughs....You are the first to go.

To some I think its purely the money. (arbitrary number but you get the idea)
XJT:100k for 3 years = 300k.

MAJOR:
yr 1= 30k
yr2= 50k
yr3= 70k
3yrs = 150k.... It takes a while to recoup this money.

If people are mid 30's or 40, the time it takes to recoup the initial cost takes most of their under 60 years. It depends on what you are looking for and where you want to end up. To each his/her own.