duvie

Or in my words: The company that provides the desired product for the lowest price, is rewarded.

Given two comparable airlines, what economic system would award business to the one with higher costs? When apple goes to buy pieces for their machines do you think they look for the company with the best treated workers, or the product they need for the best price?

I do not support any political ideology that asks for blind obedience, over-simplifies and propagandizes every issue and mocks critical thinking, therefore I do not support the Tea Party.

I do not support a party of talking heads, devoid of real leadership, driven by corporate interests, therefore I cannot vote Republican.

I do not support a party without direction, who would rather toss scraps at the poor rather than empower them, therefore I am not a Democrat.

I support a level playing field for all which is why I am wary of anybody who wants protection from competition. If I can do your job for less, then perhaps it is not I who am paid a crummy wage, but perhaps you who has been overpaid. These words are blasphemy among airline pilots, but just like I cannot demand that a girl at a bar find me attractive, neither can you demand your worth to the company without something to back it up. You might have a mullet and be able to slay sweet guitar solos, but the girls at the bar don't want that anymore than the airlines believe in superior pilot skills. All they want is well-groomed individuals who will smile at passengers and not crash airplanes. With all the modern advancements in training and technology, there are very few routes left that are technically challenging. You can take the last line anyway you want, but I've personally seen my fair share of difficult flying and can assert that much of the danger we used to face has been mitigated between EGPWS, TCAS-II, MFDs, of course CRM and the list goes on.

Training for professional pilots became so streamlined that there was much more supply than demand. Things are changing and I believe we'll be back in the driver's seat before too long. At that point, hopefully we can raise wages again, not to where they "should be," but wherever the market places them. It is irrelevant to try and figure out what a pilot should be paid, the more relevant notion is to figure out what he/she can demand and I believe in the coming years, just like the 60s and 70s, the latter will again be higher than the former.

clearprop

+1............

chazbird

Let's let the market decide, that seems to be the mantra here. I did the regional bit in the 80's, I made more as a FO then than a FO does now, figuring in inflation, twice what regional FO's make now - and it wasn't exactly gold plated then. Does the plane cost 1/2 as much now as then? Anything else cost half as much? Huge, huge problems with letting the "market decide". See, there's other people who decide what market is - it isn't just some amorphous thing with a mind of its own. Its directed. Now, over the years ALPA's done quite enough to **** me off, so much I would be wary of letting any of the leaders mow my lawn, and given my druthers I'd prefer a company without a union, but most have eventually proven the need for a union, ineffectual or not.

Check out the pay rates for Canadian operators, mainline and regionals. Generally speaking they are 30% to 50% or more higher than US main-line/regionals (Yes, including the slight differential. Oh, taxes, too. Canada is the country most like the US, socially and economically, and yet...seems their market isn't what the US market is.

clearprop

are ticket prices to fly from point A to point B the same compared to the here in the US market?

chazbird

I would think, and am almost sure, the ticket prices are higher in Canada, point to Canada point. In Vancouver they stream over the border to fly on Allegiant out of KBLI when they want to go to LAS, etc, so they are not immune, or are not tempted to avoid cheaper fares.

I also remember when a tiny company called Skywest bought a successful small California company called SunAire. As I recall SunAire paid rather nicely, even on lowly Metroliners, considerably more than Skywest. Sun Aire's routes were the springboard to Skywest getting big but their wages remain (relatively) small. (This was pre code share or contract flying).

Also, USAIR had high pilot wages in the mid 80's, and the company was also highly profitable. Things do change, but decent pay and profits are not mutually exclusive, IE Southwest. In many instances Southwest has created their own market, and yet the pay is livable.