duvie

Fishfreighter, I think many of us airline pilots look at this whole consumer driven market backwards. No pilot owns a single, job, route, codeshare, contract, passenger mile, etc.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith need to go from point A to point B (via point C).
They choose airline travel
They do research and choose the X airline because the price is right and they haven't heard an horror stories from their friends about X.
X doesn't actually fly the route, but they sell tickets on it and their codeshare partner Y flies from A to C, and a regional affiliate (with whom X incidentally agreed to codeshare) contracting with Y, will fly to point B.

This is the convoluted market we have today. Ultimately, no airline owns anything, they provide a service to consumers. So the consumers own the seats, they set the prices and their dollars speak louder than any pilot logic ever will.

As long as planes aren't falling out of the sky, and passengers are getting the service they (have come to) expect, who are any of us to declare what "should be?" We are a service industry, therefore: consumers dictate their needs, we supply a product; thus the invisible hand shapes our markets. I'd love to be paid more, but as long as we work in a deregulated economy, companies will compete with each other to offer the best....er....most acceptable product, for the lowest price. At that point how can you argue that any city-pair is Horizon's, much less Alaska's? The city pair is owned by whichever airline can attract customers to it on a given day.

I don't fundamentally disagree with your notions, or desires, but the implications your "ownership" of routes sound like you want protection from competition, not the best airline on any given route. Once you go down that road, I don't think you'd actually like what you'd get.

Sure, your interests might be served for a time, but what if your CEO falls out of favor with the senators on the transportation commission? What about the prices that are set high enough to guarantee profits, but make airline travel unaffordable to 20% of the current market, thus reducing total capacity? How do you think the government would decide which airlines lose their share, by equitable means or backroom deals? Do you trust your CEO to bribe your airline out of furloughing?

Sure, our current system is flawed and frustrating, but at least its fairly transparent and adheres to an economic system most of us embrace.

BHopper88

If I remember right, breaking down horizon's pay vs
SkyWest pay, it's higher at skw due to the bid periods at horizon.
Still horizon on a cost basis, is more "efficient" with q400s than a small fleet of crj700s. Yet is that skywest's or even the pilots fault that has horizon pilots make a Jumpseat threat? Common, look at AAG mgmt before you even remotely blame other pilot groups.

aileronjam

+1
.............

Paid2fly

Horizon's pay scales and 401K matching have much less to do with their overall cost, than the fact that SkyWest operates several hundred CRJ's compared to Horizon's dozen or so CRJ's!!! Management would like you to think, the few bucks an hour and higher 401K match are the problem.... Not true!!!

Nevets

It's even more childish when the airlines are owned by the same company! We all are working for and making/losing money for the same CEO, BOD, and shareholders. It doesn't matter if Skywest sucks more and lose money because it's all money from the same pot now. One good way for them to save more money is with one list one union one airline. Until then, they can go cry me a river if they even dream about trying to squeeze anymore from the pilots.

MatchPoint

Welcome to the world of "Contract Carriers." At some point all flying gets shifted and pilots pay a price. ASA in SLC/LAX, XJT in ONT/LAX/IAH/EWR/CLE, yes SkyWest in DEN/ORD/MKE (RAH took over MEH), Skyway, AWAC, ACA, Horizon with F9 going to RAH and now AAG, the list goes on and on and on.

Welcome to the world most of us have been operating in for years and decades. I hope you all can adapt cause it's unforgiving.

MatchPoint

[PHP][/PHP][PHP][/PHP]Thanks guys. Anna's just straight up smoking and I'll only change my avatar if I find another tennis related Anna photo that's more revealing.

MatchPoint

Strongly agree.

Fishfreighter

Duvie,

Let me get this straight...the economic system you "embrace" is the "outsource to the lowest bidder, even if it means I lose my job or work for crappy wages" system?

That kind of thinking went out when Upton Sinclair exposed the meat packing industry in "The Jungle". You need to go back and read how labor (that's right, pilots are just labor) was treated in the "good old days" you and the Tea Party appear to "embrace".

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

clearprop

Look it's a simple case of the economics of a deregulated industry. There is a consumer of a product and there is a provider of a product. Pilots, FA's, Rampers, ATC, etc are the cogs in the wheel that enable the product to be delivered. Price dictates the flow of those goods and services. Owners and managers adjust prices to attract customers. When they price the product too low they attract a lot of business, but then can't pay their bills. They fold up their tent, get purchased out of bankruptcy, or start a new company and the whole process starts over again. It sucks to see so many professionals treated so poorly by companies seeking the almighty profit margin that pleases shareholders. But that drives capitalism. This is the system we have and MOST people feel this is the best system out there.