Pinnacle Fast Track
04-07-2011, 07:57 PM
#251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Lear 55 CA
Posts: 244
Pinnacle hiring 250 hour wonder-boy pilots is an accident waiting to happen. I will refuse to fly with them in the front, or if I'm in the back deadheading. Why on earth would management want to hire "NON-Seasoned" pilots is beyond my comprehension. This is a new low.
We need "seasoned" pilots to fly jets for the airlines. For those of you with 250 hours, "seasoned" means having experience flying in multiple seasons, multiple winters dealing with icing, multiple summers dealing with thunderstorms.
Obtaining this experience by flight instructing, flying corporate aircraft that fly much slower and require less quick thinking before being thrusted into a 550 mph glass cockpit jet and flying 5 - 6 legs a day while crossing squall lines, getting struck by lightning, fighting hailstorms, performing CPR on 90 year old passengers in the back who have fallen and can't get up while simultaneously dealing with engine fires/shutdowns, shooting cat 2 approaches down to bare minimums, struggling with PCU Runaways, and solving fuel leak problems while the aircraft is solely powered by the ADG needs "seasoned pilots" to deal with this day to day challenges. Otherwise it's just an accident waiting to happen while these young whipper-snappers build flight time at the expense of safety.
We need "seasoned" pilots to fly jets for the airlines. For those of you with 250 hours, "seasoned" means having experience flying in multiple seasons, multiple winters dealing with icing, multiple summers dealing with thunderstorms.
Obtaining this experience by flight instructing, flying corporate aircraft that fly much slower and require less quick thinking before being thrusted into a 550 mph glass cockpit jet and flying 5 - 6 legs a day while crossing squall lines, getting struck by lightning, fighting hailstorms, performing CPR on 90 year old passengers in the back who have fallen and can't get up while simultaneously dealing with engine fires/shutdowns, shooting cat 2 approaches down to bare minimums, struggling with PCU Runaways, and solving fuel leak problems while the aircraft is solely powered by the ADG needs "seasoned pilots" to deal with this day to day challenges. Otherwise it's just an accident waiting to happen while these young whipper-snappers build flight time at the expense of safety.
04-07-2011, 11:06 PM
#252
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
I've been following this thread for a few days now. I don't exactly agree with the agreement between WMU and Pinnacle. I am currently a senior at FIT graduating in May, with 225 hours and a CMEL. Our flight school trains pilots from Ireland, Turkey, and Kazakhstan. So while we are paying $325 an hour in a Seminole, they are getting free rides from their governments... My instructor has 2400 hours, most of which is dual-given, and he's still at FIT instructing...Two of his students he had last year are currently flying 737's in India and Ireland....FIT barely lets their graduates become instructors unless they have their CFII, meanwhile Pinnacle is letting WMU grads pretty much walk right in. So, no, I do not agree with this because of the reasons I previously listed. I, however, am looking forward to getting my CFI, CFII, and MEI once I graduate, and learning as much as I possibly can by teaching other students for a year or so. Hard work is required to get a descent reward, it shouldn't just be handed to you...And in no way, shape, or form am I trying to portray a sense of "FIT grads are better than Riddle, WMU, UND" Last November, one of our Seminoles crashed in Palm Beach on takeoff killing all 4 souls on board. The left seat was a pilot training for MEI with 300 hours, the right seat instructor had over 3000. Cause of the accident-> overweight takeoff followed by an engine failure after rotation. You'd think a 3000 hour MEI would have been able to prevent this...I am in no position to judge anyone's flying abilities, but just because you have thousands of hours, doesn't mean you are some sort of flawless pilot. Accidents can and do happen.
Back in the days when I was a instructor in India, My students that I gave air-ex & took them to CPL, a large majority are now 4 striper full captains on A320 & B737, so should I be complainingthat I am still where I am & they are captains........... These students went from a cessna 152 to Airbus A320 or B737, not even a multi in between or some with a 10 -15 hrs on Seneca/ Duchess, still they are all captains, how did they pass the sim check rodes & how did they make captains, ??? Well they all had to work hard to make it..... & they did & some got dropped from the sim training & sent back........
As far as 250 hrs fresh CPL's getting to fly CRJ, Your example of the ill fated crash with a very well qualified Instructor on board proves that experience alone is not enough.......
Most of the charter pilots forget, bigger aircrafts is all procedures, CRM & FMS etc etc & we may not like this but it is true.....
Wish all the new hires good luck & rest all be happy that airlines are finally at a point that they are desperate that they are even absorbing 250 hrs freshers, they will have no choice but to hire us also one day, so our turn can also be not very far behind.......
If winter is almost gone, can spring be far behind......!!!!
04-08-2011, 08:36 AM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,350
Sandrich U just made a very solid point to all those who are whining & compaining just because the WMC grads got in & they didn't......
Back in the days when I was a instructor in India, My students that I gave air-ex & took them to CPL, a large majority are now 4 striper full captains on A320 & B737, so should I be complainingthat I am still where I am & they are captains........... These students went from a cessna 152 to Airbus A320 or B737, not even a multi in between or some with a 10 -15 hrs on Seneca/ Duchess, still they are all captains, how did they pass the sim check rodes & how did they make captains, ??? Well they all had to work hard to make it..... & they did & some got dropped from the sim training & sent back........
As far as 250 hrs fresh CPL's getting to fly CRJ, Your example of the ill fated crash with a very well qualified Instructor on board proves that experience alone is not enough.......
Most of the charter pilots forget, bigger aircrafts is all procedures, CRM & FMS etc etc & we may not like this but it is true.....
Wish all the new hires good luck & rest all be happy that airlines are finally at a point that they are desperate that they are even absorbing 250 hrs freshers, they will have no choice but to hire us also one day, so our turn can also be not very far behind.......
If winter is almost gone, can spring be far behind......!!!!
Back in the days when I was a instructor in India, My students that I gave air-ex & took them to CPL, a large majority are now 4 striper full captains on A320 & B737, so should I be complainingthat I am still where I am & they are captains........... These students went from a cessna 152 to Airbus A320 or B737, not even a multi in between or some with a 10 -15 hrs on Seneca/ Duchess, still they are all captains, how did they pass the sim check rodes & how did they make captains, ??? Well they all had to work hard to make it..... & they did & some got dropped from the sim training & sent back........
As far as 250 hrs fresh CPL's getting to fly CRJ, Your example of the ill fated crash with a very well qualified Instructor on board proves that experience alone is not enough.......
Most of the charter pilots forget, bigger aircrafts is all procedures, CRM & FMS etc etc & we may not like this but it is true.....
Wish all the new hires good luck & rest all be happy that airlines are finally at a point that they are desperate that they are even absorbing 250 hrs freshers, they will have no choice but to hire us also one day, so our turn can also be not very far behind.......
If winter is almost gone, can spring be far behind......!!!!
04-08-2011, 09:06 PM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 267
I'm not a fan of this bridge program. I think it's a little crazy to have a wet com pilot in front of a crj. I think at a minimum at any airline no matter the economy, how desperate the airlines are, there should be a min of 500 hrs to be able to sit right seat on any airline. Just imagine what would happen if the captain had a heart attach and this sub 300 hr pilot now has to make a decision on their own with people's lives behind them.
Student straight to ''fo student'' is not going to do anybody any good. I know it's possible to do and has been done in the past but come on. Imagine what would happen if when you walked onto an aircraft that the pilots had to have posted their flight experience posted on the door. I could see passengers wanting to wait for a more experienced flight crew.
Student straight to ''fo student'' is not going to do anybody any good. I know it's possible to do and has been done in the past but come on. Imagine what would happen if when you walked onto an aircraft that the pilots had to have posted their flight experience posted on the door. I could see passengers wanting to wait for a more experienced flight crew.
04-08-2011, 10:00 PM
#257
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 5
Pinnacle hiring 250 hour wonder-boy pilots is an accident waiting to happen. I will refuse to fly with them in the front, or if I'm in the back deadheading. Why on earth would management want to hire "NON-Seasoned" pilots is beyond my comprehension. This is a new low.
We need "seasoned" pilots to fly jets for the airlines. For those of you with 250 hours, "seasoned" means having experience flying in multiple seasons, multiple winters dealing with icing, multiple summers dealing with thunderstorms.
Obtaining this experience by flight instructing, flying corporate aircraft that fly much slower and require less quick thinking before being thrusted into a 550 mph glass cockpit jet and flying 5 - 6 legs a day while crossing squall lines, getting struck by lightning, fighting hailstorms, performing CPR on 90 year old passengers in the back who have fallen and can't get up while simultaneously dealing with engine fires/shutdowns, shooting cat 2 approaches down to bare minimums, struggling with PCU Runaways, and solving fuel leak problems while the aircraft is solely powered by the ADG needs "seasoned pilots" to deal with this day to day challenges. Otherwise it's just an accident waiting to happen while these young whipper-snappers build flight time at the expense of safety.
We need "seasoned" pilots to fly jets for the airlines. For those of you with 250 hours, "seasoned" means having experience flying in multiple seasons, multiple winters dealing with icing, multiple summers dealing with thunderstorms.
Obtaining this experience by flight instructing, flying corporate aircraft that fly much slower and require less quick thinking before being thrusted into a 550 mph glass cockpit jet and flying 5 - 6 legs a day while crossing squall lines, getting struck by lightning, fighting hailstorms, performing CPR on 90 year old passengers in the back who have fallen and can't get up while simultaneously dealing with engine fires/shutdowns, shooting cat 2 approaches down to bare minimums, struggling with PCU Runaways, and solving fuel leak problems while the aircraft is solely powered by the ADG needs "seasoned pilots" to deal with this day to day challenges. Otherwise it's just an accident waiting to happen while these young whipper-snappers build flight time at the expense of safety.
04-09-2011, 05:34 AM
#258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 599
Well this goes to show how these forums are full of "know it all's" who swore that the days of 250 hour wonders were over forever!
Captains...if it's one of those dark and stormy nights and your on your last leg, feeling tired and hoping to lean on your FO a little to get you there...and you get the guy with the uniform shirt so white it looks like his mom just bleached it for him and his flight case looks like it just came off the shelf from office max...call in fatigued.
Captains...if it's one of those dark and stormy nights and your on your last leg, feeling tired and hoping to lean on your FO a little to get you there...and you get the guy with the uniform shirt so white it looks like his mom just bleached it for him and his flight case looks like it just came off the shelf from office max...call in fatigued.
04-09-2011, 07:57 AM
#259
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 46
Exactly. And more realistically, what if the captain ate something bad and gets sick during flight, or had family problems arise that may distract him. Do you really think the brand new FO will know how to handle a hairy situation? These jets need two people to fly them. The procedures are so technical and complicated, we don't need pilots who are so new to the industry that they are more of a hinderance than a helper. The last thing I want in the right seat is someone who is hanging on by a 100 foot rope behind the airplane when split second decision making (diverts, missed approaches, or mechanical malfunctions) arise out of nowhere. At 250 hours of flight time, you are more of a hinderance than a helper in this profession.
The regional airlines are going to H=LL in a handbasket with 250 hour wonder pilots, fuel at 120 dollars a barrel AND ALPA representing the majors and the regionals - total conflict of interest.
There are dark clouds on our horizons boys. Time to buckle your seatbelt.
04-09-2011, 08:03 AM
#260
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 46
There is such a thing called "The Aviation Ladder." It starts with Cessnas as the bottom step, then duchesses and barons, then king airs, then saab-340's, Beech 1900's, then CRJ's, then DC-9's, Airbus 319's, 757's and 747-400.
When pilots try to jump up a couple of steps it jeopardizes safety. At 250 hours, you should be building flight time in a baron or duchess. Around a 1,000 hours, you should be right seat in a kingair. Around 1500 hours, blasting along at 550 mph at 37,000 feet in a CRJ while skirting a thunderstorm, that's still alot for a 1500 hour pilot, but by climbing each step in the Aviation Ladder, you will feel more so in place.
A 250 hour wonder pilot at LGA tends to be a total meltdown on the radio.
When pilots try to jump up a couple of steps it jeopardizes safety. At 250 hours, you should be building flight time in a baron or duchess. Around a 1,000 hours, you should be right seat in a kingair. Around 1500 hours, blasting along at 550 mph at 37,000 feet in a CRJ while skirting a thunderstorm, that's still alot for a 1500 hour pilot, but by climbing each step in the Aviation Ladder, you will feel more so in place.
A 250 hour wonder pilot at LGA tends to be a total meltdown on the radio.
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