Pinnacle Fast Track
04-05-2011, 12:37 PM
#201
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
I completely agree, radio skills are one area that a lot of new guy's will probably struggle in. However, i feel like the airline who is training said new guy should do a better job teaching radio etiquette during the training process. I feel like radio skills are only acquired through a good cfi, and i was fortunate to have one that insisted we fly in high traffic areas where ATC communication was 100% nessacary. That is how i learned, but not all cfi's are like that. So while i agree that radio skills need to be seriously improved upon, I think that standardization of ATC skills should be a part of 121 ground school. If we are being examined in every other aspect of our pilotage skills, the radio should not be left out. Thats pretty scary that the first time real radio skills are used is during IOE, and I can see why that would make a captain nervous.
No, it really isn't the airline's job to teach RT. The cost of the sim makes taxi time and comms training prohibitively expensive. And ground school is no substitute for experience. A good instrutor WILL expose a student to as much as he can, but there is no replacement for going to a busy airport, day after day, during a push. I firmly believe the activity that is the most challenging and most likely to get me violated is taxiing at night in precip. It sure is a relief to have a useful FO not just someBODY in the right seat.
A 121 airline is responsible for teaching 121 regs, ops spec, and your aircraft. A 121 CA is responsible for teaching aircraft subtleties and ATC quirks. Learning how to fly and talk are the applicant's responsibility PRIOR to the interview.
04-05-2011, 02:25 PM
#202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
I think the pace of the communication catches the new pilots off guard. If the busiest airports you have gone to are SBN or GRR. The first time you land in PHL or LGA is a bit of a *** experience. My first 121 flight was into PHL, I think the night before I studied the taxi chart for an hour, so I wouldn't screw it up. That said even after 4000+ hours in the right seat, I still jack it up no and then when I get something long and unexpected.
When I instructed at WMU I tried to make it a point to take a student into MDW (usually during instrument training). Hearing the pace of the radio chatter gives them an idea for further down the road.
As for an airline teaching radio ops, I think it depends on who you are hiring. I know large international airlines that have classes completely dedicated to it and if you are hiring 300 hour pilots, it may serve you well to take an hour and play some recordings of actual atc communications from around the system.
I also think sim sessions should be done with realistic radio clearances and speed. I can tell you at both 121 carriers I have worked at, 85% or more of the time we didn't even wear headsets during the lessons. So other than the PC, LOE, or MV, you weren't really talking on the radio.
When I instructed at WMU I tried to make it a point to take a student into MDW (usually during instrument training). Hearing the pace of the radio chatter gives them an idea for further down the road.
As for an airline teaching radio ops, I think it depends on who you are hiring. I know large international airlines that have classes completely dedicated to it and if you are hiring 300 hour pilots, it may serve you well to take an hour and play some recordings of actual atc communications from around the system.
I also think sim sessions should be done with realistic radio clearances and speed. I can tell you at both 121 carriers I have worked at, 85% or more of the time we didn't even wear headsets during the lessons. So other than the PC, LOE, or MV, you weren't really talking on the radio.
04-05-2011, 03:59 PM
#203
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
I also think sim sessions should be done with realistic radio clearances and speed. I can tell you at both 121 carriers I have worked at, 85% or more of the time we didn't even wear headsets during the lessons. So other than the PC, LOE, or MV, you weren't really talking on the radio.
04-05-2011, 04:41 PM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Nope... Absolutely not. But that sounds a lot more like the training departments fault then anything else. If this guy cant even talk on the mic, how did he mange to bumble his way through training?? Hate to say it, but if he managed to make it all the way to the flight line, somebody who is NOT a 250 hour "wonder" should have washed him out a long time before you flew with him. Maybe we shouldn't be focusing so hard on the skill of new pilots and be spending a little more time looking into the skill of those who are supposed to be teaching them.
But no, I dont think you should be held responsible for teaching FO's how to speak.
But no, I dont think you should be held responsible for teaching FO's how to speak.
04-05-2011, 04:48 PM
#205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Chill out bro, your not gonna change anybody's mind talkin sh!t and throwin out abbreviations left and right. Many have tried and it never works. These guys dont care about what you know, only about how many less hours you have than them. We went to school together and I know ure a legit pilot, now you just have to prove that to everybody senior to u. Do your thing and prove these clowns wrong. Actions speak louder than words, thats just the way it is.
DO YOU THANG PLAYA!!! REP YO HOOD!!!! Did you share time with your WMU 'bro' flying to the keys? We "clowns," as you so maturely phrased it, are your future co-workers. Advice to both of you, come to work, shut up, do your job, do it well, and mature beyond your frat days. Put your big boy pants on and get to the grind. Apparently WMU doesn't stress grammar and spelling when they are training you to be a professional. You are the clown everyone is laughing at now. I'm still chuckling.
04-05-2011, 05:05 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Emb 170/175 FO
Posts: 272
DO YOU THANG PLAYA!!! REP YO HOOD!!!! Did you share time with your WMU 'bro' flying to the keys? We "clowns," as you so maturely phrased it, are your future co-workers. Advice to both of you, come to work, shut up, do your job, do it well, and mature beyond your frat days. Put your big boy pants on and get to the grind. Apparently WMU doesn't stress grammar and spelling when they are training you to be a professional. You are the clown everyone is laughing at now. I'm still chuckling.
04-05-2011, 05:15 PM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
04-05-2011, 06:05 PM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
munky, buttr, Hmmm... 2 of the fixes on the Polar arrival into DTW that are located not too far from Kalamazoo.... Wonder if that is a WMU grad right there.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AirWillie
Flight Schools and Training
10
02-05-2006 08:37 AM
