Pinnacle Fast Track
03-22-2011, 02:23 PM
#91
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Yeah well respect is earned... And I feel that the pilots who educate new hires and work with them to become accomplished and safe operators will get the respect you are talking about, at least from me. However, if you think that berating and mocking a new hire to the point that he/she becomes as jaded as you is a good idea, i'd imagine the seat you sit in doesn't even respect you. If you want respect from a young pilot, who in your opinion knows nothing of this industry or what they are doing, educate them. If they dont listen, they're a moron, but i guarantee ill be listening to every word, watching every move and doing my best to be a professional.
Respect IS earned. Telling me and everybody else to F-Off is NOT a way of earning respect.
My job as a 121 CA is NOT to teach basic airmanship, radio telephony, or IFR regulations. What I do teach is how to MANAGE a flight in a multi crew environment, quirks of ATC particular locations, and subtleties of our aircraft. This is PhD stuff. Until you have your Masters, you probably aren't ready.
Finally, LISTEN to this: there are a bunch of grumpy people on this board. There are also a bunch who simply tell it like it is. I'd like to think I am one of them. If you don't like what I say or choose to ignore it, that is your prerogative. But the fact remains, this industry is tough, sometimes cruel. If you LISTEN to some of these old farts, you might be able to avoid some of the mistakes they have made. Or, you can ignore us all, screw up the same ways we did and some we never imagined; all the while, we will just shake our heads and say, "We warned you." (Read my signature)
03-22-2011, 03:01 PM
#92
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Yeah well respect is earned... And I feel that the pilots who educate new hires and work with them to become accomplished and safe operators will get the respect you are talking about, at least from me. However, if you think that berating and mocking a new hire to the point that he/she becomes as jaded as you is a good idea, i'd imagine the seat you sit in doesn't even respect you. If you want respect from a young pilot, who in your opinion knows nothing of this industry or what they are doing, educate them. If they dont listen, they're a moron, but i guarantee ill be listening to every word, watching every move and doing my best to be a professional.
Wow to the last post you made lol and wow to this one.
Apparently you're not listening because throughout this whole thread, pilots have been saying how bad of an idea it is to allow pilots with 0 real world experience sit in the seat that you've mentioned a few times, and you're not listening.
As for the old farts comment, how old are you? I ask because I'm 24, and I believe that it should be at least 1000hrs to be in the right seat of an RJ, but apparently that constitutes me as an old guy, right?
I won't even go off on any kind of rant because I'm not a fan of working for the airlines (no offense to anyone on here!) but aviation is a VERY small community. I worked aerial survey for a season. 7 months on the road and I couldn't believe how many pilots I met for the first time who knew pilots that I knew, or knew aircraft that I've serviced (working line). Walk around with an entitled attitude, and not only will nobody want to work with you, no one will want to vouch for you when the time comes for you to make the step into an interview. This career is all about networking and who you know.
03-22-2011, 09:34 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: EMB-170 FO
Posts: 383
Respect IS earned. Telling me and everybody else to F-Off is NOT a way of earning respect.
My job as a 121 CA is NOT to teach basic airmanship, radio telephony, or IFR regulations. What I do teach is how to MANAGE a flight in a multi crew environment, quirks of ATC particular locations, and subtleties of our aircraft. This is PhD stuff. Until you have your Masters, you probably aren't ready.
Finally, LISTEN to this: there are a bunch of grumpy people on this board. There are also a bunch who simply tell it like it is. I'd like to think I am one of them. If you don't like what I say or choose to ignore it, that is your prerogative. But the fact remains, this industry is tough, sometimes cruel. If you LISTEN to some of these old farts, you might be able to avoid some of the mistakes they have made. Or, you can ignore us all, screw up the same ways we did and some we never imagined; all the while, we will just shake our heads and say, "We warned you." (Read my signature)
My job as a 121 CA is NOT to teach basic airmanship, radio telephony, or IFR regulations. What I do teach is how to MANAGE a flight in a multi crew environment, quirks of ATC particular locations, and subtleties of our aircraft. This is PhD stuff. Until you have your Masters, you probably aren't ready.
Finally, LISTEN to this: there are a bunch of grumpy people on this board. There are also a bunch who simply tell it like it is. I'd like to think I am one of them. If you don't like what I say or choose to ignore it, that is your prerogative. But the fact remains, this industry is tough, sometimes cruel. If you LISTEN to some of these old farts, you might be able to avoid some of the mistakes they have made. Or, you can ignore us all, screw up the same ways we did and some we never imagined; all the while, we will just shake our heads and say, "We warned you." (Read my signature)
03-23-2011, 01:07 AM
#95
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Wow to the last post you made lol and wow to this one.
Apparently you're not listening because throughout this whole thread, pilots have been saying how bad of an idea it is to allow pilots with 0 real world experience sit in the seat that you've mentioned a few times, and you're not listening.
As for the old farts comment, how old are you? I ask because I'm 24, and I believe that it should be at least 1000hrs to be in the right seat of an RJ, but apparently that constitutes me as an old guy, right?
I won't even go off on any kind of rant because I'm not a fan of working for the airlines (no offense to anyone on here!) but aviation is a VERY small community. I worked aerial survey for a season. 7 months on the road and I couldn't believe how many pilots I met for the first time who knew pilots that I knew, or knew aircraft that I've serviced (working line). Walk around with an entitled attitude, and not only will nobody want to work with you, no one will want to vouch for you when the time comes for you to make the step into an interview. This career is all about networking and who you know.
Apparently you're not listening because throughout this whole thread, pilots have been saying how bad of an idea it is to allow pilots with 0 real world experience sit in the seat that you've mentioned a few times, and you're not listening.
As for the old farts comment, how old are you? I ask because I'm 24, and I believe that it should be at least 1000hrs to be in the right seat of an RJ, but apparently that constitutes me as an old guy, right?
I won't even go off on any kind of rant because I'm not a fan of working for the airlines (no offense to anyone on here!) but aviation is a VERY small community. I worked aerial survey for a season. 7 months on the road and I couldn't believe how many pilots I met for the first time who knew pilots that I knew, or knew aircraft that I've serviced (working line). Walk around with an entitled attitude, and not only will nobody want to work with you, no one will want to vouch for you when the time comes for you to make the step into an interview. This career is all about networking and who you know.
03-23-2011, 03:49 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Wasn't really making the point that CFI's are better pilots. I personally think being a CFI really doesn't help much at all besides getting better at seeing things before they happen.
My point was just general experience, and when you graduate from a 141 school with 250 hours, pretty much the only way to build that general experience is to CFI, unless you get lucky and land a gig elsewhere.
My main point was that these first few through all pretty much meet the standard minimums anyway. We wont really know how it goes until the fresh 250Hour guys starting hitting the training.
My point was just general experience, and when you graduate from a 141 school with 250 hours, pretty much the only way to build that general experience is to CFI, unless you get lucky and land a gig elsewhere.
My main point was that these first few through all pretty much meet the standard minimums anyway. We wont really know how it goes until the fresh 250Hour guys starting hitting the training.
The notion that instructor experience doesn't benefit airline flying is wrong and is mostly presented by those with either no experience as an instructor prior to airline flying or they instructed with the wrong attitude (i.e. strictly time building). In addition to the above, giving instruction develops decision making, PIC skills, CRM, basic flying skills, etc.
One should keep in mind the saying about flying 1 hour 1000 times or flying 1000 hours. Experience mileage depends on one's attitude.
Last edited by Zapata; 03-23-2011 at 04:23 AM.
03-23-2011, 03:59 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
They should be ashamed at themselves that they're letting in people new to the industry without an interview when there are still those of us who have been furloughed from 121 carriers who still don't have a job yet.... where's MY class date offer? for that matter where's my interview call???...
My .02
03-23-2011, 04:19 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 1986 LeBaron Convertable
Posts: 439
To any low time, direct entry applicants:
Any program that allows such low time entries only serves to undermine the
entire aviation industry. NO OTHER REAL PROFESSION would ever allow this into their ranks. Do you honestly believe the American Dental Association would allow yourself to be called a Dentist with zero experience??? NO WAY. They would kill the concept because it would demean what it means to be a Dentist.
Managment knows that if you continue to ease the entry process of becoming a pilot, there will never be a pilot shortage. There will be legions of low skilled pilots ready to come online very quickly should the need arise. This allows wages to be kept shamefully low by their controlling of the supply. In time, you will see this come to fruition, but for now, understand that low time applicants are killing this industry.
Any program that allows such low time entries only serves to undermine the
entire aviation industry. NO OTHER REAL PROFESSION would ever allow this into their ranks. Do you honestly believe the American Dental Association would allow yourself to be called a Dentist with zero experience??? NO WAY. They would kill the concept because it would demean what it means to be a Dentist.
Managment knows that if you continue to ease the entry process of becoming a pilot, there will never be a pilot shortage. There will be legions of low skilled pilots ready to come online very quickly should the need arise. This allows wages to be kept shamefully low by their controlling of the supply. In time, you will see this come to fruition, but for now, understand that low time applicants are killing this industry.
03-23-2011, 04:54 AM
#99
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
If I had 250hrs and someone offered me an RJ or some type of high performance aircraft I wouldn't say no, and there's no way any other pilot would say no to it either.
It's like giving the keys of a race car to a 17year old fresh out of his license test and expecting him to say no.
03-23-2011, 05:51 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Sideways in a sim
Posts: 435
It's interesting to see in bad times how prolific SJS is in this industry... of all the people you may know who were furloughed from 2008 to now (I know there were furloughs before, but this was the time where the airlines really started to hire the "bottom of the barrel" 250-500 hour pilots en masse for the first time.. and before you complain about me calling it bottom of the barrel... I was one of them..) how many of them are still in the 121 world, either with another carrier, recalled, or actively pursuing interviews? A TON of people I knew who entered ended up going away to what they called "bigger and better things" because the first roadblock killed their nice shiny view of the airlines... of my 14-person training class at Comair I think I'm the only one that's still active in the 121 world... The airlines can be a tough, cruel world.. but the darker days can also serve as a crucible to find out those of us who truly love flying and love this industry and those who thought it'd be cool to go crusin' around in a jet... I guess this is starting to turn into a speech, so I'll shut up now...
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