blastoff

Read the whole reg. This does not substitute for PIC time, it just allows SIC time to count for the 1500 total, not the 250 PIC. Put down the shovel, and walk away from the hole.

snippercr

The 1500 hours never scared me, nor does the PIC requirement. It's that cross country time requirement. That is really going to screw the CFIs, Banner towers, and diver drivers. Even CFIing constantly, my XC time is building very slowly.

Also, that multi-engine requirement they list. It seems kind of vague. When will we know what that will be?

rustypigeon

Where are you guys getting this "no pic required" idea?

I have not done much research since it does not apply to me, but it seems that the final bill requires an ATP. An ATP of course requires 250 PIC. So by default you would need 250 PIC when this takes effect. What a I missing?

anthony210

There is no real PIC time requirement even though it says so in the regs. Otherwise 300 hour wonders would never upgrade due to the lack of PIC time. And I know for a fact there are quite a few of them that were hired in 2007 or 2008 that are upgrading now.

rustypigeon

How are the wonder kids upgrading? I must assume the examiners are not looking in their logbooks. It is pretty clear that you need 250 pic.

anthony210

There is also a snippet in there about SIC time while performing the duties of the PIC under the supervision of the PIC can be counted toward the PIC time. I think this is how they get around it.

EDIT: Here it is.

250 hr. of flight time as PIC of an airplane, or as SIC performing the duties and functions of a PIC under the supervision of a PIC, or by any combination of the two. This requirement must include

blastoff

It is how they get around it. Although there are rumblings that some FSDO's want to change their interpretation to mean every Captain that FO flies with has to sign his logbook to count that time, vouching that the FO actually performed PIC duties. Right now most Airlines have their own DE's that just look the other way (or follow the company's interpretation). If you get an ATP Checkride with an independent DE, he WILL scour your logbook for 250 PIC.

rustypigeon

I still don't see how an SIC can argue that they are "performing the duties and functions of the PIC" unless the are on a captain upgrade IOE ride, or an IRO on a 3 man crew and the captain is sleeping in the back.

If anyone disagrees with me, please tell me how you are performing both the duties and functions of the PIC.

blastoff

I think the Regional Airlines argue that their FO's are in a continuous Part 121 upgrade program since the day they were hired. There can be arguments made that the reg is only speaking to "Hands on the Controls" PIC time that the SIC can't log since he isn't PIC typed in the A/C. Obviously the FO isn't signing the Dispatch Release.

RJSAviator76

Hmm.... I remember at my old regional, we had a guy who was hired with 250 hours total time, and when the time came to upgrade, he had to go rent a 152 for 50 hours since he was shy of 250 hours PIC to be eligible to upgrade.

This whole "manipulating controls" on an aircraft where a pilot is not even command-rated and counting the flying legs as PIC towards ATP requirements is hogwash.

As for how CFI's get 500 hours of cross country time; well, towards ATP can be a little difficult, but towards meeting the requirement to be a PIC under Part 135, unless they closed that loophole, you can credit airport-to-airport time regardless of the distance towards meeting the cross country requirements of 135.243(b) or (c). Bear in mind that this particular "cross country time" does NOT count towards your ATP requirement of 500 hours of cross country time.

Then get a job flying for places like Airnet, Ameriflight, etc and you'll get all the cross country time you would ever need. Not to mention, that's where you will really learn to be a professional pilot and a pilot-in-command.

As someone said, I don't think there will be any shortage of pilots - only shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for crappy wages.