SKW/XJT/ASA fleet bases, merger concerns
08-14-2010, 05:47 PM
#31
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 194
I think you are too easy to discount the fact that most XJT pilots are ready to move on from the broken promises of the once great XJT. ASA is a good company and you seem to like your CEO, so most guys are keeping it in perspective. This deal will go through and I think most will be happy with it no matter what the list looks like.
I know you like to keep emphasizing that you're doing the buying. That's fine, but has no bearing on SLI.
I know you like to keep emphasizing that you're doing the buying. That's fine, but has no bearing on SLI.
08-14-2010, 09:26 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 235
And I am hearing rumors that a recall is going to be proposed at the August LEC meeting for all of the current ASA MEC members. Waiting in the wings to take their places are some real hardliners who would not settle for anything less than DOH. So keep up the whining. It's gotten old. We'll see what happens.
08-15-2010, 12:41 PM
#33
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I am. I'll move UP 7% in DOH. I'll move down ~2% with relative, depending on the formula. But I was prepared to eat that for the sake of getting a combined list of 4000 happy pilots. Now, it's looking less and less worth it, because I think we're buying a list of pilots who will be unhappy no matter what.
Not likely. I am actually one of ASA's hardliners, but am wise enough to know when to pick my battles and when not to. Your scope clause isn't worth the paper it's written on, because you forgot to include the eventuality of a subsidiary buying you. Oops! Thanks for playing. More crap put out by ALPA's finest lawyers!
We at ASA learned the hard way that pulling in the same direction is the best tactic under the SkyWest umbrella. We have no patience for the learning curve of 2800 pilots to come in who don't get that.
Not likely. I am actually one of ASA's hardliners, but am wise enough to know when to pick my battles and when not to. Your scope clause isn't worth the paper it's written on, because you forgot to include the eventuality of a subsidiary buying you. Oops! Thanks for playing. More crap put out by ALPA's finest lawyers!
We at ASA learned the hard way that pulling in the same direction is the best tactic under the SkyWest umbrella. We have no patience for the learning curve of 2800 pilots to come in who don't get that.
Second, you aren't buying anyone. ASA is buying XJT, you as a pilot aren't involved in the purchase. You'll be effected by the purchase, but you're not buying anyone.
Thirdly, if the scope clause ain't worth jack then why did Jerry back out last time? It is possible that a judge will side with XJT ALPAs interpretation. Never say never. You may find yourself eating crow.
08-15-2010, 02:21 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,369
The government won't LET you do DOH. 
If you fight against it... you might have to learn about:
McCaskill-Bond
Try as you might, you're not going to staple if the lists merge. And if you fight hard enough to get it to arbitration, you might not like the results either...
so it seems like playing fair if the XJT guys have the scope clause in their contract work would be the best way to go...
It'd be real embarrassing to be a regional with labor strife a la US-Airways/America West
If you fight against it... you might have to learn about:
McCaskill-Bond
Try as you might, you're not going to staple if the lists merge. And if you fight hard enough to get it to arbitration, you might not like the results either...
so it seems like playing fair if the XJT guys have the scope clause in their contract work would be the best way to go...
It'd be real embarrassing to be a regional with labor strife a la US-Airways/America West
08-15-2010, 11:43 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
Tony,
You sound like management.
1) Management can afford to pay us a respectable wage. Dont buy into the propaganda.
2) I dont think you ever wanted this merger from the beginning. You and Slaphappy have been confrontational in every single thread so far.
3) always remember that you are managements puppit. They buy other companies and we fly the airplanes. \
4) A contract violation is a contract violation. What good is a contract if no one wants to uphold it. It is a negotiation and just to roll over on this issue and relinquish any bargaining power we might have is completely asinine.
5) Supporting a DOH integration is about as short sighted as you can get. Sure you and a small percentage might gain a few percentage points but you are collectively throwing your junior guys under the bus. XJT did a lot of hiring (80 pilots a month) from 04-07. In my example a % integration would mean i would move back 200 #'s and slide back 5 months doh. So sure you might want a DOH list but it is illegal, a horrible idea for 60-70% of your own pilot list, and is a perfect example of the selfish "i got mine" attitude that has plaqued our profession.
So please go ahead and try and recall your MEC because you wanted a DOH list! You will get laughed out of the room or lynched by the junior pilots.
Lets all just take a deep breath and see what our unions come up with. This COULD benefit everybody involved. We want one list across three companies or we want iron clad protections in our contract to prevent the whipshaw... it is that simple. As for the lifeboat comment, well it isnt much of a "lifeboat" if theres a guy plugging a hole threatening you with drowning.
You sound like management.
1) Management can afford to pay us a respectable wage. Dont buy into the propaganda.
2) I dont think you ever wanted this merger from the beginning. You and Slaphappy have been confrontational in every single thread so far.
3) always remember that you are managements puppit. They buy other companies and we fly the airplanes. \
4) A contract violation is a contract violation. What good is a contract if no one wants to uphold it. It is a negotiation and just to roll over on this issue and relinquish any bargaining power we might have is completely asinine.
5) Supporting a DOH integration is about as short sighted as you can get. Sure you and a small percentage might gain a few percentage points but you are collectively throwing your junior guys under the bus. XJT did a lot of hiring (80 pilots a month) from 04-07. In my example a % integration would mean i would move back 200 #'s and slide back 5 months doh. So sure you might want a DOH list but it is illegal, a horrible idea for 60-70% of your own pilot list, and is a perfect example of the selfish "i got mine" attitude that has plaqued our profession.
So please go ahead and try and recall your MEC because you wanted a DOH list! You will get laughed out of the room or lynched by the junior pilots.
Lets all just take a deep breath and see what our unions come up with. This COULD benefit everybody involved. We want one list across three companies or we want iron clad protections in our contract to prevent the whipshaw... it is that simple. As for the lifeboat comment, well it isnt much of a "lifeboat" if theres a guy plugging a hole threatening you with drowning.
08-15-2010, 11:48 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
Heres a question for the ASA guys:
What is ASA's company policy on outside flying? I fly charter on the side and make it work with my schedule. I have yet to run into legality conflicts or schedule issues but I am curious if anybody has any similar experiences.
What is ASA's company policy on outside flying? I fly charter on the side and make it work with my schedule. I have yet to run into legality conflicts or schedule issues but I am curious if anybody has any similar experiences.
08-16-2010, 05:43 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ CA
Posts: 328
Not allowed without permission from the Director of Operations is how I believe it reads. I had a friend here that asked them about it and was told no way, so he went with don't ask don't tell.
08-16-2010, 06:20 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
08-16-2010, 06:24 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,660
I am a junior guy at ASA. A DOH integration would drop me 7% and put me below every furlough except 2. Like others have said its probably illegal to do a DOH, but if it DID happen I believe, and I feel most other junior guys would as well, all hell would break loose at ASA from the junior guys revolting
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