Blueskies21

I've talked to several guys and we think it's a nice step that we would get our longevity honored for pay at Pinnacle and colgan but we'd much rather have our contract honored. I would take either of your hourly rates with my contract before I'd take my hourly rate with your contract.... I guess I'm one of those guys that believes soft time/ contract provisions really are worth it. Not sure I can justify taking a paycut from my job now to be abused on reserve with no end in sight.

lolwut

Agreed except for one point. Why not shoot for the best of both pay and work rules. None of the 3 airlines involved have such stellar contracts that compromises, subpar terms, and reductions should be even considered.


When it comes down to it, at a regional, your paycheck is going to suck. No matter what you negotiate your payrate to be, you'll still be getting paid less than you should and your takehome pay will be embarrassing (I'm not saying that its right though, its just how things are right now). So why not try to at least get a better quality of life and not feel like an indentured servant?

Blueskies21

Agreed. I was referring to the offer for furloughed mesaba guys to be pref hired at pinnacle and colgan right now. They are going to allow the Mesaba guys to keep their longevity for pay rates. I'd rather keep the contract than the rates. But in the final hash out of the contracts I expect no less than Mesaba's current contract and an increase in pay rates. We shouldn't be giving things back and Pinnacle has fought a long time to have anything to give.

FlyingGuy

Pinnacle reserve sucks pure and simple. Typically you will work in some fashion every reserve day yet not break guarantee. Max work for min pay. Believe it or not the rejected TA proposed making reserve WORSE. Unfortunately we have a number of pilots who were hired on the leading edge of a big expansion and did little to no reserve so don't understand this. The bottomline is DO NOT COME TO PINNACLE! Many came here thinking it will get better and a good contract was "just around the corner". We have lots of guys getting divorces, getting foreclosed on or quitting and leaving the industry because they couldn't survive the Pinnacle "holding pattern" any longer. We have happy senior guys here that get good schedules and livable pay but most people here get the shaft. Quick upgrades are long gone and won't be back anytime soon.

SrfNFly227

As far as I know, you aren't actually keeping either. You are coming to Pinnacle as a Pinnacle pilot, which means working under our contract. Our contract has pay rates, which should be what you get paid. You are just keeping your longevity for figuring your new Pinnacle pay.

This sucks for you guys. No doubt about it. But please keep in mind that you are being offered the decision of whether or not to come over. No one is forcing you to do it. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people are in line behind you in case you say no.

FlyingGuy

Unfortunately "no one is forcing you to work here" is the cop-out for a lousy contract at Pinnacle. Not enough people want to fight. Having said that - staying away or quitting is the only way to improve things here. Until they can't hire anyone they will continue with their ways.

Blueskies21

I'm sorry if it seems like I misunderstand, I don't. We would get 2nd year Pinnacle pay NOT 2nd year Mesaba pay, I understand that completely believe me. What I'm saying is, given the choice of keeping longevity for pay or keeping contract provisions I'd keep the contract 10 times out of ten. But I guess since you brought it up, I'd rather have Mesaba pay rates with your contract too. It's nice that they will let us have 2nd or 3rd year pay,that's 200% more than I would expect... but lets shoot for the moon here. As pilots we've done plenty of settling for good enough.

higney85

We ensured that there would be no penalty for bypass. We need pilots at 9E and the MEC's have made every effort and opportunity to get furloughs back to flying. What else would you like? The ALPA National "one list" camp has worked for decades for portable longevity and this is the first time it has ever come about into something to get guys back into a cockpit without hurting any pilot's current seat/seniority/pay/benefits. What will unfold is still speculation, but this entire MOU is being worked to keep the pilots that are now our brothers and sisters in mind. The company is going to have to hire either way and would get the luxury of filling classes on an 11 year old contract at first year pay... Instead they will pay you for time worked before you were under the "umbrella". If you don't want to come here, fine, but please don't start the "moon routine" when guys are fighting the flak to get you aboard when times are rough.

C152PIC

We get that "if we don't want to come here, fine". But the fact is that some of us are facing the fact that if we don't "come here" we'll be shipped off to the East Coast as a Mesaba recall when/if that does come around. Believe me, I'd love to wait around for a Mesaba recall if it meant keeping a Mesaba base but unfortunatly that's probably not going to be the way it works. And don't get me wrong, I honestly think that Pinnacle buying Mesaba was a good deal. We all know that Delta wasn't trying to hide the fact that they had nothing but kicks to throw at us and Pinnacle Holdings offers the opportunity to maybe keep the Saabs and some add'l flying, but with that will most likely come transfers to random 2-3 leg commute bases that non of us had anticipated. Especially those that volunteered to leave to save someone else's job because they could afford to do so and would come back in a year when things got a little better. So I apologize if we all sound like bunch of whiny babies, it's a lot to take in in such a short time and now we're just trying to weed though all of the information and stressing over what the best option to take would be.

Blueskies21

+1 to almost all of C152's post
Higney- I guess I'm not clear enough, I am SUPER thankful for the opportunity. I am IMPRESSED that a)the unions are this organized and b) the company almost looks like it might be looking at something other than the bottom dollar.

Let me extend you a personal thank you because I know you're a Pinnacle rep.

That said, most of the furloughs knew that there wasn't a recall forthcoming. This has thrown a wrench in our plans. Maybe it's a good wrench,the jury is still out. The first 60 will be given the choice of going to pinnacle and the next 90 will only be able to go to colgan. Pinnacle offers us the ability to bid our former bases which is awesome, however we'll be on reserve and to be honest it sounds like your reserve sucks. Colgan will hire more, so some guys might be line holders but their work rules are very poor so perhaps that's not really better.

The choice we face is tied up in the seniority integration, if it goes the way many previous mergers have gone, furloughs generally get stapled. The thought process being, "these guys didn't have jobs anyway, so what do they care about being stapled to the bottom" or some version there of. This offer is very well thought out because it reduces the number of true new hires and thus the number that would be affected by whatever the final decision is on SLI. The issue is, we're faced with returning to one of the companies now in an attempt to preserve our seniority or risking getting stapled and losing what little seniority we might have.

Obviously there is a lot to contemplate for a lot of people. I guess the issue is maybe we shouldn't be trying to discuss the merit of the offer in mixed company.

I ,for one, appreciate the show of solidarity by the pinnacle and colgan pilot groups. I just have no idea what my answer will be when the time comes.

In the mean time, I hope you get a TA soon and that it's worthy of the time you've waited for it.