likeitis

How does this benefit the F9 pilots? They don't give a crap about your unions out of control clown car.

When was Doug brought in? Unless it was within the last few weeks, he obviously hasn't changed your poor course of action. New boss is same as the old boss. There is zero chance the IBT will be representing the pilots of Frontier/Lynx/Midwest/Republic in the future if it ends up being single carrier. They are starting in the hole of a minimum of 1100 votes from the start.

ToiletDuck

1) Republic announced Frontier before Midwest
2) Amalgamation of contracts has no set rules. The company can simply say no all day long.
3) There was also the inclusion of Lynx and Mokulele at the time who also were to be represented
4) At that point in time both Frontier and Midwest didn't want to integrate let alone amalgamate contracts.
5) Contract neg. was stopped for good reason. There was a lot going on and a lot of questions that needed answering. Each union found out the same way we did, though the news, and needed to make sure they had all of their ducks in a row before proceeding forward.
6) Without everyone on a single seniority list the amalgamation and negotiation of a new contract would just be a large flop. There's no airline with multiple pilot groups that have benefited from not being on the same seniority list. See Mesa/Freedom, GoJets/TSA. Past history dictates moving forward without being combined is extremely risky.

There's no benefit for Frontier to maintain separate. Everyone agreed to integration, to a timeline, to get it completed in a timely manner. You don't place your bets then try and pull it back off the table once the cards are being dealt.

ToiletDuck

F9 pilots aren't IBT they are FAPA. The you said the IBT hasn't been acting in the interest of it's pilot group. It has. Your reasons for seeing them as a failure, as pointed above, don't make sense.

zoooropa

I understand that is the idea, and it is flawed.

Do you think the company is going to just throw in our pay and work rules because we want them. Most of our scheduling section doesn't work with your CBA because you have PBS and we have hard lines. Duty and trip rigs, not gonna happen. Add/drop/swap, not gonna happen. They will cut and past the bus pay rates for the airbus flying and called it a amalgamated cba. End of story.

Meanwhile, you could be negotiating for all of the things that you currently do not have, but you are doing nothing instead.

The only way to guarantee that we do not have to work under the IBT CBA is to get rid of the IBT. Everyone remains status quo until the new CBA. We keep the CBA that we negotiated and fought tooth and nail to defend, and you keep exactly what you deserve. We elect a new union and start from scratch.

likeitis

How's that 190 grievance going. Seems the ALPA guys got 2 major grievances completed in less than half the time your clowns have been able to get simple ruling on what is a seat.

sticky

You sir, are my newest hero. Finally a moment of clearity.

Have you tested your trip/duty regs against our current lines???? Do you realize that your trip/duty regs are so poor that it doesn't even apply to most of our current pairings??? Your beloved work rules are a joke. Because of the stunts you pulled before integration, and before you continue to sneak around damaging our combined future with the hopes of protecting yourselves, you have lost the respect of any professional pilot. Don't be surprised if you get that fence you want, then you wake up on the streets....you'll deserve it. (Ok..i regret saying that. I don't wish that on anyone, but YOU should be careful what you WISH for.)

Right, God has the time to spare to focus on which seat Frontier pilots occupy. While you're praying, throw in world peace too...let me know how it works out for ya! Maybe if we all pray really really hard, they'll get what they want!....What makes your FOs so special? Why do Frontier FOs get to decide who bids and gets awarded captain? RAH bought your company during your bankruptcy. Dozens of former airline have been down this path, why should you be treated any different? Why shouldn't a RAH pilot fly on the F9 certificate? You both work for the same company. What makes you so damn special?

terryhflyer

All hale the mighty NW/DL B747-400 CA or is it E135 fo. He knows all and does not forget. You need to need a vacation dude, take a cruise or something. Easy with the "Scab" word.

toomanyrjs

Well this is certainly a nice little lovefest in action. What are the current odds that this silly SLI will be a mirror of East vs West over at Airways?

Oskeewowow

Just a few thoughts here. I really hope some of these statements made on this board are by drunk keyboard commandos who are bored of looking at internet porn. If people really think like this on both sides of the table, we're in for a bumpy road.

Bottom line, we are all employees of a holding company run by crude tyrants with no respect for their frontline employees. They will play us against each other simply to erode pay. This union v union fighting only helps their cause. BB flat out stated he'd like to keep our lists separate. Why do you think that is? It sure as heck isn't to protect Frontier FOs seniority or chance at an airbus upgrade. The more we fight amongst ourselves, the less leverage we have against the company. A prolonged seniority battle has been in the RAH executive playbook from the start.

The SLI will be a painful process, but one we have to embrace quickly so that we can move on. I'm a RW FO, and pretty sure that I'll be royally screwed by the SLI. Will I be POd after it goes through? I'm expecting it. What I'm focused on however, is the long term issues at this new abomination of an airline. The sooner the SLI is complete, we can begin to form a unified front against management. Get angry at BB & WH, not at each other.

ATCsaidDoWhat

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
1) Republic announced Frontier before Midwest who cares about announced, when was it final. Midwest July 30th, Frontier Oct 1.
2) Amalgamation of contracts has no set rules. The company can simply say no all day long. Not really. Look at dal/nw and ual/cal.
3) There was also the inclusion of Lynx and Mokulele at the time who also were to be represented
4) At that point in time both Frontier and Midwest didn't want to integrate let alone amalgamate contracts. Pure speculation by you.
5) Contract neg. was stopped for good reason. There was a lot going on and a lot of questions that needed answering. Each union found out the same way we did, though the news, and needed to make sure they had all of their ducks in a row before proceeding forward.
6) Without everyone on a single seniority list the amalgamation and negotiation of a new contract would just be a large flop See how dal/nw and ual/cal are doing it? There's no airline with multiple pilot groups that have benefited from not being on the same seniority list. See Mesa/Freedom, GoJets/TSA. Past history dictates moving forward without being combined is extremely risky. I'm not debating this. Just the way IBT has done this is backwords because a reasonable person would assume after a year of work on this SLI it would actually accomplish something. It doesn't. It's a list of numbers with no legal authority to do anything without a transition agreement that directs it's implementation. The only benefit of doing it this way is the IBT can hang on a little longer. If they would have done it via the method that dal/nw and cal/ual have used, the IBT would be gone by now.

There's no benefit for Frontier to maintain separate. Everyone agreed to integration, to a timeline, to get it completed in a timely manner. You don't place your bets then try and pull it back off the table once the cards are being dealt. Everyone agree to integrate the seniority list. Nothing more.



Interesting replies in red to ToiletDuck...sounds verbatim like the writings of a certain ALPA lawyer who uses a couple of folks to to his posting.

He forgets to mention that the merger of dal/nwa involved some screwing of the NWA pilots and a deal cut by the DAL MEC and ALPA that Prater denied he had signed...until a copy was handed to him.

Also forgets that there have been other mergers that have been royally screwed up...like NWA/Republic.

And that this merger involves three different unions. And they were smart enough to realize that it's better to get everything lined up before movng forward.

One things for sure. ALPA will love hitting you for more dues money. Don't expect much in return...ask the Midwest guys how much help Prater offered when he was up there for the rally when he promised to "change his zip code" ...he told them in a meeting they'd get nothing...because then ALL the little carriers would want the same help.

Regardless, expect him to be camped on your doorstep and your new "bestest" friend for the next three months. He's running for election again and is gonna start raiding every place he can, looking for votes.

And your money.