F9 Driver

You guys crack me up. Why are the respective unions wasting all of that money on that arbitrator when all they had to do was poll random internet message boards?

Lament our situation as you will, but this isn't Delta / Northwest. This isn't a marriage of (near) equals. There are four unions involved, not one. Management wants to keep us separate, but enjoy the synergies of combining the back office.

The process is backwards from the way it should be if the goal was to actually integrate the groups onto one functioning list. It won't be us F9 guys dragging our feet (since we are the minority and before/if this goes into contract negotiations we all will have to be represented by the same union). The blame will be shared by IBT leadership, for setting the unrealistic expectation that RJ pilots working under a POS commuter contract could, somehow, leapfrog into the mainline pay and work rules of the national they merged with, and RAH management who will be unwilling to exceed to those expectations knowing that, when the floodgates open up in November 2012, their attrition will soar and the union will be weak.

And the idea that a single list prevents whipsaw? Total BS. Management wants 50% +1 vote. Anything more and they gave too much. Pander to the majority of the list and they'll get what they want (old guys selling out new guys / new guys (expecting to leave) not planning long term / the top and bottom of the FO list and bottom of the CA list wanting growth / old guys protecting retirement / etc.) I expect that RAH management will successfully play the fee for departure pilots (the vast majority) off of the mainline pilots, weakening our work rules in exchange for some minor RJ pay improvements.

The process is what it is. Good luck to us all.

likeitis

Well said. The IBT would be better served concentrating on negotiating a contract. Management is holding a far better hand and the only way labor has to pick away at the cards is to get to a strike as soon as possible. Long shot but they really need to try to get released before the next president is put in office or it may be a long time. That's why the IBT ceasing negotiations is a huge mistake.

WeaselBoy

Actually, during the amalgamation process we can get the released for a strike sooner. That's the current aim.

Hetman

F9driver: Good post. That is certainly what this management team will try to do. Whether they will be successful, however, is still an open question.

The "regional" side pilots are pretty dreadfully fed up with their treatment at the hands of the management group and I do not believe they will settle for a small pay bump and a promise of an airbus seat. I believe they will demand a contract that is commensurate with that of a stand alone airline flying 150 seat airplanes. I believe they will strike for it.

Putting aside who believes they deserve what in the SLI, once it is done it will be up to all the pilots to prevent management from playing us off each other. I find it likely that there will be a card drive immediately following the arbitrator's decision, whichever way that goes. Good. It is important that the combined group decide who they want representing them. But once that is over, whichever way that goes as well, the groups, who are now polarized, will have to un-polarize or as sure as death and taxes management will exploit the rift.

Beechlover

I'm an RAH pilot who frequently operates in/out of DEN and makes use of the F9/RAH crew room. If there is ultimately going to be a "card drive" wich I have no problem with btw, I'd be interested to see what FAPA has to offer. Not much (if anything) has ever been said on the RAH side ANYWHERE about FAPA being a possibility for our integrated pilot group. Off the cuff thinking says that FAPA will first seek to secure F9 interests and rightfully so as that should be it's charter. Not sure I would be jumpnig up and down with my hand in the air for that, sorry. If FAPA could somehow educate/demonstrate how it will unify this pilot group FAIRLY and effectively deal with OUR management. I would not be opposed to reviewing what FAPA has to offer based on it's merit's. Not so sure you know who your dealing with..., not just yet, thats gonna take some time for you guys to really see what your up against.

In the crew room everybody is friendly enough, but you can already see the line that divides F9 space from the RAH space. All the F9'ers hang a right and the RAH'ers go left. I personally, deliberately sit in the traditional area F9folks hang hoping to strike up a friendly conversation, and I've met many of you, who have been terrific to meet. How ever this all turns out, I truely hope, when several years have passed that we can view ourselves as one group despite, Management's and our Union's best efforts. After all, we are all in the same profession, we all have bills to pay, we all live in the same country. Best of luck to everyone.

ToiletDuck

No that's not what I've thought at all. Like I said you haven't thought your statements through.

F9 Driver: I've honestly never heard anyone talk about wanting to just jump into the bus. Short term thinking is why many of the FO's here are stuck on a 4yr payscale. I wouldn't automatically discount the group as willing to sell someone else out. People are thinking long term and want to make this place better as they might be here from some time. A lot of the issues aren't simply pay and any win in those categories will benefit everyone as a whole(basing issues etc). Many people, myself included, will not pickup a single flight until everyone on the streets is back, not just the RAH guys, and honestly I think it's been making a difference. There's no reason to go into this thinking people aren't willing to work together for a common goal. I don't agree with your about being a single list not making a difference. Having seen how this company operates there are so many ways they could stick it to all of us if it didn't happen that I'm too scared to count.

zoooropa

Is this what the IBT is saying?

Nothing could be further from the truth.

There is a laundry list of things that need to be completed prior to release in this scenario.

1. Their needs to be a filing by one of the unions for a Single Carrier
2. Their needs to be a decision by the NMB

If the NMB decides that a Single Transportation System does NOT exist, we are done right there.

IF they decide a Single Transportation System does exist then we have a number of things to do prior to release.

1. Negotiations
2. Mediation.

You also need to elect a bargaining unit prior to the strike vote.

I have said it a million times, IF there is a Single Transportation System and IF the IBT prevails as the bargaining representative, they have seriously miscalculated by not continuing their Section 6 negotiations.

Thankfully for those of us that do not want to be IBT, this mistake will hopefully cost them the union election.

I don't think you will see "FAPA" on the card. It will likely be the IBT, ALPA, an all new Independent Union, and possibly the UTU.

With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Bedford and his clan are working on a transaction that would actually eliminate a lot of the problems with this merger. If you listen to the last earnings conference call and take a look at the 50 seat landscape I think you can read between the lines and realize that big changes are about to occur at RJET. Further fee-for-departure consolidation may GREATLY effect this SLI.

flyguy23

Im not a big IBT advocate, but they are resuming negotiations. Not that it means anything considering we're years away from a new contract. I will say an independent union will win in a pretty big way when the representational vote does come. Of course this is assuming we are deemed a single transportation system. Not sure how we wouldn't be, but it would be hell for all involved if we're not. The republic contract is very clear about who is to fly any new aircraft bought or leased by RAH. Whether or not its an airbus means nothing.

Im curious as to what you're thinking when it comes to this transaction. A sale of one of the certificates or maybe the whole RAH family? Whatever it is, it needs to happen soon.

FLEX

Everyone seems to be upset with FAPA over the single carrier status issue. Just remember the only group to argue against single carrier thus far is the IBT. The IBT argued against single carrier trying to lock out the Midwest Flight Attendants. I'd be more worried about the IBT's actions setting a bad precedent for future arguments.

zoooropa

Actually, and this is possibly the greatest example of the "International Brotherhood of Teamster" true colors, the IBT initially argued for the single carrier.

It was the IBT that filed with the NMB, claiming that a single carrier existed.

They also filed a petition with the NMB to automatically make the Midwest FA's (previously AFA union members) IBT union members.

The NMB decided against the Single Carrier but decided for IBT representation.

Then the IBT, not wanting to go through the expense of another SLI, said the entire transaction was not covered by A-M and M-B, claiming the YX Flights attendants had no rights and would need to be re-hired.

At the same time, the F9 FA's elected the AFA for its union.

This is the epitome of hypocrisy.

How can the IBT represent the pilots of Republic during an SLI with the YX pilots, but claim the same transaction is not covered between the same airlines regarding the flight attendants? Because they would not make any money from the new members and they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting another SLI.

A few hundred additional YX FA's would not add to the national union's bottom line (remember, the F9 FA's already elected the AFA), but a thousand plus pilots is worth the effort.

If it isn't in the best interest of the IBT (national), then it doesn't happen.