Eagle Life
06-13-2012, 03:08 AM
#5751
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
Honest questions .....if USAir and AA (Pilots, FA's and TWU..per negotiation talks) come to terms on a merger:
1. Doesn't AMR have orders (understood as options) for 480 aircraft. (Rhetorical)
2. If the pilots go, the airframes don't?
3. If pilots go, and pi$$ of AMR, the only pilot group left is Eagle?
4. Then can you see AMR retaliate against the merger?
Not being a "high fiver" by any means. I just heard this hypothetical through friends.
1. Doesn't AMR have orders (understood as options) for 480 aircraft. (Rhetorical)
2. If the pilots go, the airframes don't?
3. If pilots go, and pi$$ of AMR, the only pilot group left is Eagle?
4. Then can you see AMR retaliate against the merger?
Not being a "high fiver" by any means. I just heard this hypothetical through friends.
06-13-2012, 05:00 AM
#5752
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
What's the possibility of Republic swapping their American Connection erj-140s for some E170/E175s and locking in a new contract once the current one expires, which I think is soon? The APA scope preventing non-amr carriers from operating anything larger than 50 seaters will probably be gone by the time the Republic erj-140 contracts expire, right?
One of the future Eagle feeders may only be a Q400 outfit.
06-13-2012, 05:07 AM
#5753
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Honest questions .....if USAir and AA (Pilots, FA's and TWU..per negotiation talks) come to terms on a merger:
1. Doesn't AMR have orders (understood as options) for 480 aircraft. (Rhetorical)
2. If the pilots go, the airframes don't?
3. If pilots go, and pi$$ of AMR, the only pilot group left is Eagle?
4. Then can you see AMR retaliate against the merger?
Not being a "high fiver" by any means. I just heard this hypothetical through friends.
1. Doesn't AMR have orders (understood as options) for 480 aircraft. (Rhetorical)
2. If the pilots go, the airframes don't?
3. If pilots go, and pi$$ of AMR, the only pilot group left is Eagle?
4. Then can you see AMR retaliate against the merger?
Not being a "high fiver" by any means. I just heard this hypothetical through friends.
Those groups have ALREADY "come to terms" with U via the CLA's (Conditional Labor Agreements) already negotiated. These only apply if Parker takes over via his POR being accepted by the creditors and prior to BK exit. If AMR retains control and their POR stands, then the CLA's don't apply. At that point, AMR and U can still agree to a merge, but contractually, new terms would have to be agreed to with labor. As far as the AA pilots are concerned, even if they agree to a contract with AMR, it wouldn't affect their efforts to support Parker's plan for a pre-exit merge.
At this point, the process can still go in multiple directions.
06-13-2012, 05:14 AM
#5754
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
The media calls this a merger but the only way that is going to happen is if AA Managment agrees to it or their exclusive period expires, this will likely be a hostile takeover. US Air would acquire all of AMR, unless they chose to break it up between other parties. As far as the pilots going and. It the airplanes, what would AMR do with order of airplanes with no gates, no slots, no routes established and no brand name! Essentially they would be a start up... But again if US Airways acquires AA they are acquiring AMR as a whole, with pilots, slots, airplanes, gates, 4.8 billion in cash and over 25 billion in debt!
Oh, and no one will be "acquiring 25 billion in debt". That is what the Chapter 11 process is for, i.e., to eliminate the majority of that. Regardless of a U merger or not or who has the awarded POR, AA will come out of Chapter 11 with very competitive labor costs, VERY low debt and plenty of investors willing to (actually wanting) to get in on the action.
06-13-2012, 10:50 AM
#5756
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
Well, a "hostile takeover" is something that occurs outside BK, wherby an outside source goes directly to shareholders for the purposes of gaining control and overthrowing the current management/BOD. Different scenario. Any merger scenario wherby some assets (routes and aircraft with/without labor) are relinquished would have to approved as part of a POR.
Oh, and no one will be "acquiring 25 billion in debt". That is what the Chapter 11 process is for, i.e., to eliminate the majority of that. Regardless of a U merger or not or who has the awarded POR, AA will come out of Chapter 11 with very competitive labor costs, VERY low debt and plenty of investors willing to (actually wanting) to get in on the action.
Oh, and no one will be "acquiring 25 billion in debt". That is what the Chapter 11 process is for, i.e., to eliminate the majority of that. Regardless of a U merger or not or who has the awarded POR, AA will come out of Chapter 11 with very competitive labor costs, VERY low debt and plenty of investors willing to (actually wanting) to get in on the action.
A hostile takeover allows a suitor to take over a target company whose management is unwilling to agree to a merger or takeover. A takeover is considered "hostile" if the target company's board rejects the offer, but the bidder continues to pursue it, or the bidder makes the offer directly after having announced its firm intention to make an offer. Development of the hostile tender is attributed to Louis Wolfson.
A hostile takeover can be conducted in several ways. A tender offer can be made where the acquiring company makes a public offer at a fixed price above the current market price. Tender offers in the United States are regulated by the Williams Act. An acquiring company can also engage in a proxy fight, whereby it tries to persuade enough shareholders, usually a simple majority, to replace the management with a new one which will approve the takeover. Another method involves quietly purchasing enough stock on the open market, known as a creeping tender offer, to effect a change in management. In all of these ways, management resists the acquisition but it is carried out anyway.
US Airways Moving for Hostile Takeover of American Airlines, Has AA Unions on Board
Here is what happened with Delta
"On January 31, 2007, Delta's creditors rejected US Airways' hostile takeover attempt, and US Airways withdrew its offer to buy Delta"
Same thing happened with United
And now AMR, Also the debt will be restructured but most of it will be there until paid off, yea some stock will be issued but the majority of the debt will be there but with more favorable terms. Of course there is going to be debt shed as aircraft are returned and other changes are made.
Read Below
"Insurmountable levels of debt are another albatross around the neck of the legacy airlines. While American will likely shed or refinance some of the airline’s debt in more favorable terms while in bankruptcy, the massive debt problem for U.S. legacy airlines is still obscenely out of control. Prior to the bankruptcy action, American Airlines was carrying at least $10 billion in debt with another $7 billion in unfunded or underfunded pension liabilities. Sadly, even after bankruptcy, Delta Air Lines is still carrying $14 billion and United Airlines $13 billion in debt and pension liabilities"
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flight...core-problems/
Again, most of the airlines shed cost and recede some of the debt but they kept most of it! Also US Airways has tried hostile takeovers with United and Delta and we are next... There is no question about it.
06-13-2012, 12:39 PM
#5758
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Hostile takeovers
A hostile takeover allows a suitor to take over a target company whose management is unwilling to agree to a merger or takeover. A takeover is considered "hostile" if the target company's board rejects the offer, but the bidder continues to pursue it, or the bidder makes the offer directly after having announced its firm intention to make an offer. Development of the hostile tender is attributed to Louis Wolfson.
A hostile takeover can be conducted in several ways. A tender offer can be made where the acquiring company makes a public offer at a fixed price above the current market price. Tender offers in the United States are regulated by the Williams Act. An acquiring company can also engage in a proxy fight, whereby it tries to persuade enough shareholders, usually a simple majority, to replace the management with a new one which will approve the takeover. Another method involves quietly purchasing enough stock on the open market, known as a creeping tender offer, to effect a change in management. In all of these ways, management resists the acquisition but it is carried out anyway.
US Airways Moving for Hostile Takeover of American Airlines, Has AA Unions on Board
Here is what happened with Delta
"On January 31, 2007, Delta's creditors rejected US Airways' hostile takeover attempt, and US Airways withdrew its offer to buy Delta"
Same thing happened with United
And now AMR, Also the debt will be restructured but most of it will be there until paid off, yea some stock will be issued but the majority of the debt will be there but with more favorable terms. Of course there is going to be debt shed as aircraft are returned and other changes are made.
Read Below
"Insurmountable levels of debt are another albatross around the neck of the legacy airlines. While American will likely shed or refinance some of the airline’s debt in more favorable terms while in bankruptcy, the massive debt problem for U.S. legacy airlines is still obscenely out of control. Prior to the bankruptcy action, American Airlines was carrying at least $10 billion in debt with another $7 billion in unfunded or underfunded pension liabilities. Sadly, even after bankruptcy, Delta Air Lines is still carrying $14 billion and United Airlines $13 billion in debt and pension liabilities"
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flight...core-problems/
Again, most of the airlines shed cost and recede some of the debt but they kept most of it! Also US Airways has tried hostile takeovers with United and Delta and we are next... There is no question about it.
A hostile takeover allows a suitor to take over a target company whose management is unwilling to agree to a merger or takeover. A takeover is considered "hostile" if the target company's board rejects the offer, but the bidder continues to pursue it, or the bidder makes the offer directly after having announced its firm intention to make an offer. Development of the hostile tender is attributed to Louis Wolfson.
A hostile takeover can be conducted in several ways. A tender offer can be made where the acquiring company makes a public offer at a fixed price above the current market price. Tender offers in the United States are regulated by the Williams Act. An acquiring company can also engage in a proxy fight, whereby it tries to persuade enough shareholders, usually a simple majority, to replace the management with a new one which will approve the takeover. Another method involves quietly purchasing enough stock on the open market, known as a creeping tender offer, to effect a change in management. In all of these ways, management resists the acquisition but it is carried out anyway.
US Airways Moving for Hostile Takeover of American Airlines, Has AA Unions on Board
Here is what happened with Delta
"On January 31, 2007, Delta's creditors rejected US Airways' hostile takeover attempt, and US Airways withdrew its offer to buy Delta"
Same thing happened with United
And now AMR, Also the debt will be restructured but most of it will be there until paid off, yea some stock will be issued but the majority of the debt will be there but with more favorable terms. Of course there is going to be debt shed as aircraft are returned and other changes are made.
Read Below
"Insurmountable levels of debt are another albatross around the neck of the legacy airlines. While American will likely shed or refinance some of the airline’s debt in more favorable terms while in bankruptcy, the massive debt problem for U.S. legacy airlines is still obscenely out of control. Prior to the bankruptcy action, American Airlines was carrying at least $10 billion in debt with another $7 billion in unfunded or underfunded pension liabilities. Sadly, even after bankruptcy, Delta Air Lines is still carrying $14 billion and United Airlines $13 billion in debt and pension liabilities"
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flight...core-problems/
Again, most of the airlines shed cost and recede some of the debt but they kept most of it! Also US Airways has tried hostile takeovers with United and Delta and we are next... There is no question about it.
06-13-2012, 01:26 PM
#5759
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
OK, I'll concede that U swaying the UCC, gaining their support and obtaining control of AA via a BK judge is a "hostile takeover" (as opposed the more common occurance outside of BK), but I still don't know where your getting that AA will exit BK with 25 billion in debt to be assumed by whomever. That would be twice what the others have now, years after they exited BK. That would be a pretty bad faliure of a Chapter 11 trip, don't you think ?
06-13-2012, 01:37 PM
#5760
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,196
No, they wouldn't. The whole Chapter 11 process is about "sheep dipping" the debt away. Look at the GM BK; the process is about reducing loads of debt and turning it either equity or a percentage reduction.
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