Wingtips

I love how the NY LEC put together a high money saving idea, that would allow satellite bases and Team Tony shot it right down, I guess things we want that save money are not the unions MO.

http://www.****************/forum/at...7&d=1339114410

eaglefly

Well, wouldn't want to disappoint SF3 and his high-fiver girlfriend (who can't think for herself). Of course, Embraer will be getting some significant orders for larger EMB's as scope will indeed be relaxed at both AA and DAL. I'd expect at least 100 E-175's for AA feeders, but many will go to another regional besides the "current" Eagle.

I still plan to laugh when SF3 flies 76-seats for less then what he's flying 44-50 seats for now and his gal pal ?

Well, she'll still be his F/O in 5 years. Chuckles ahead for the baby roo ...........

eaglefly

It would be a waste of time as it would cost millions. Aside from the fact "team Tony" has zero leverage, that deal is already done.

Eagle's future is marginal and they know it. Yes, SOME larger RJ's will come, but the bad news is when the U merger deal goes through, a lot of those larger RJ orders will go to one or more of the current U feeders and I'd be surprised if more then half the current 3000 pilots of Eagle find a post merger chair to sit in when the stand alone AA music stops. E-190's are already flown by U mainline and the APA agreements with Parker keep that concept. The E-175/CRJ-900 will be the largest RJ and the future merged AA/U and not all Eagle pilots will get a slice of pie. Poor SF3 might even end up an F/O again and wouldn't that be a sad note ?

What

You are getting really enjoying, not because you say that Eagle is likely to shrink or that we might be worse of (@ Eagle) because of a merger. But because you have the case of the college bully trying to beat up on the high schoolers, if you don't have something constructive to say please don't. The regionals will be making a transition as airlines look to revamp their network, reduce frequency, insert larger aircraft and adjust to what seems to be a large turn over of pilots in years to come. Most regional pilots will be affected by this, some good and some bad but there is no need for bashing other pilots. We know AA wil have larger RJ flying for the. In the near future, we know that AMR says they want to diversify the feed and we also know that if AA orders E175 RAH has a program, bad contract, lower wages and thus might be able to deploy the aircraft sooner. These are all fact, but no need to come here and act like you are, talkig about high 5ers, and then do the same!

eaglefly

Sorry you see it that way, but you're entitled to your opinion. You see it as me being a "bully", but what I see is me only returning rocks thrown specifically at me by two known instigators. They want to belittle me as "JJ", "joey" or a baby kangaroo, fine...........I can play that game to the end of eternity.

Tit-for-tat.


If I took joy in bashing Eagle pilots, I'd be doing that freely. I have friends at Eagle and hope they make out better (but of course, not at my expense). My posts above were directed SPECIFICALLY at 2 rock throwers. Other then that, my comments were simply obvious observations (which you seem to agree with) and thus they must be faced. Mainline pilots will be facing them and they will essentially be the ones funding these larger RJ's with their concessions (forced or otherwise). I think it's time for all of us to put on our big boy pants and acknowledge where this profession is going and mainline pilots short-term pain will be regional pilots long-term pain.

If I want to listen to the H-5 crowd there's two other websites that are infested with them. Unfortunately, when a couple of them scurry along the baseboards to this one for a quick hit-and-run rock throw, I reserve the right to return the rocks at my discretion.

eaglefly

I'm sure you're eagerly awaiting the joyous news of AA furloughs, SF. Unlike you, I harbor no desire to see Eagle pilots as a group suffer. A specific few ?

Well, let's just say I wouldn't crumble to a sobbing mess.

I'm sure "team tony" has got your back, though !

What

The AA pilots will not benefit from a merger with US Aiways, they rather stay alone. AA pilots are using US Airways to out pressure on AA managment, with that being said if AMR managment destroys their contract and US Airways looks better then a merger is beneficial. Look how they are doing another round of direct negotiations mid next week and Friday will have mediated negotiations once again, these were agreed by both parties. Both parties have said they made progress in some areas and it will come down to an 11th hr deal and SCOPE will be the deciding factor. All we can do is hope that SCOPE remains strong!

eaglefly

Interesting way the EMB guys phrases his statements. The first thing that catches my eye is that the orders will be placed "in the next YEAR". That's a long way off and signals to me, nothing is imminent. The second is that the scope is limited to the E-175, leaving the E-190/195 variant to mainlines.

The assumption is that not only EVERY 50-seater will be replaced by a 76-seater, but that this market will expand to claim more of smaller mainline flying. Likely true, and so the legacies will likely contract and pretty close to the rate of retirements at least for the rest of this decade. That means most current regional pilots will still be enjoying the regional life for the next 7-8 years, many well into their 40's and 50's. This means most who are regional captains won't be going anywhere (not that they'll have anywhere TO go in the airline industry). More larger RJ's will result in many current markets that won't support them and thus whatever is gained by taking over more of current mainline flying is lost to reduction of current regional flying, so that means simply a morphing of the current regional industry of similar size instead of true expansion. The end result is general stagnation among the regional pilot ranks.

Ordinarily, this will be bad for for regional operators, but AA is leading the way out of that by a wage methodology that ensures no excessive longevity as Eagle has now. It involves "resetting" pay rates to the "most competitive" carriers annually. Additionally, short-term contracts that will be staggered and multiple feed providers will ensure future regional pilots must stay very agressive about minimum cost (pay), if they want to keep their contracts (jobs). It's a great deal for airline managements, shareholders and vendors (creditors) like Embraer and that I'm sure is why this guy is so exited. As usual, pilots will get scraps and in the future a whole new generation will become skinniest of all. The question then is, what happens when they run out of pilots willing to fly these things for peanuts ?

Option A would be to increase pay, but then they may end up in a situation of paying more to a new-hire regional pilot, then a new-hire legacy pilot. Sounds stupid, considering these aircraft generate less revenue then larger aircraft to offset higher expenses. Suddenly, the economics may not work so well for the next generation of RJ's or worse yet, they may be committted to deliveries that they have no pilots for. Good luck to short-sighted managements in getting relief from legacy unions on their next self-induced quagmire (unless of course, they play the BK card again and go crying to sympathetic judges).

Option B, then might be having no alternative but to move these aircraft (and pilots) over to legacies and their union control. I also see a "perfect storm" coming for the next influx of beloved RJ's, but this time if there are insufficient pilots to fly them, it will be lagacy unions in the driver's seat looking for major "payback" of the past. Nothing like taking delivery o a shiny new jet, but having no $150,000 debt ridden 22-year olds willing to be abused for $30,000/year. Remember the pipleline for pilots is generally about 4 years out and judging from the number of new college kids heading toward the pro pilots career (as evidenced by # of new commercial pilot licenses) now and the need for the desired "huge" numbers of these jets in 4 years, one can indeed see a perfect storm brewing.

Personally, I plan to laugh my arse off when the inevitable hits and it will be all the more funny in that it could have been prevented in the first place if it wasn't for the misguided intoxication with endlessly undercutting pilots in perpituity. In 5 years, when this will be officially declared the mess it clearly looks like it will be, I'll be none too sypmathtic about once again bailing out the inept and it will take MAJOR compensation for me to even entertain the idea.

Maybe I'll start a business in Arizona giving public tours at "RJ Parks" where new EMB-175's will be going ?

Heck at least they could generate at least SOME revenue !

eaglefly

I'm not going to comment on the "leverage" aspects of the AA union/U labor agreements, but regardless of any TA with AMR management, it will NOT negate the desire to merge with U. You see, 7500+ AA pilots (out of under 8,000) believe that AMR's stand alone business plan as-is, which is basically amounting to shifting a lot of AA domestic to RJ's at the tombstones and thus increasing flying by 20% there (most of it NOT AA) and adding lie-back seats in 777 first-class in 2 years (others already have this now), isn't going to provide a future for AA employees and is still simply limping along due to exessive kicking-the-can.

A viable business plan by a management team that has demonstrated they can actually execute success is what's needed. Most pilots here would rather NOT merge with U, but most anaysts believe it necessary. It's clear to me even AMR management has no problem with a U merger, they just want to exit BK FIRST (in control), get beaucoup stock shares and THEN do the merger so THEY can ca$h-in. A FAT exit payoff and mucho stock and off they go.....happy as clams. Only one place to get that money though and that's from the employees (again).

The bottom line, is that this whole U merger business is FAR from simple negotiation sabre-rattling.

samballs

I kind of get a kick out of some of your comments on here(I personally think this is the only place you would say such comments), but you do sound like a d0uchebag