Eagle Life
12-18-2011, 07:13 PM
#4691
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
let me put my spin.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
Last edited by buddies8; 12-19-2011 at 02:54 AM.
12-18-2011, 07:28 PM
#4692
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,723
Keep in mind that our captains flowing to AA was in anticipation of their upcoming retirements.
I know much perspective has been lost since this whole BK thing happened, but lets not forget that 2012 is the year when major retirements begin at all the legacy airlines, AA included.
This is not something AA, AMR, APA, or anybody else has control over. Those pilots due to hit 65 must go. Many will retire before 65. All of our flow-through agreements are still in place. The 824 flow through is a grievance that was awarded by another judge and cannot be thrown out. They must flow when AA needs them. A quick look back at the projected retirements at AA for 2012 and beyond will show that our 824 captains will be needed sooner rather than later.
So I know there is much doom and gloom right now. In reality all we have is uncertainty. Hang on to things we do know and take everything else with a grain of salt. Talk to anybody who was at Delta, United, Continental, etc.. when they went through BK.
Things like speculations, rumors, doom, gloom, and having the peanut gallery talk about you and your company in third person is all part of the game.
I know much perspective has been lost since this whole BK thing happened, but lets not forget that 2012 is the year when major retirements begin at all the legacy airlines, AA included.
This is not something AA, AMR, APA, or anybody else has control over. Those pilots due to hit 65 must go. Many will retire before 65. All of our flow-through agreements are still in place. The 824 flow through is a grievance that was awarded by another judge and cannot be thrown out. They must flow when AA needs them. A quick look back at the projected retirements at AA for 2012 and beyond will show that our 824 captains will be needed sooner rather than later.
So I know there is much doom and gloom right now. In reality all we have is uncertainty. Hang on to things we do know and take everything else with a grain of salt. Talk to anybody who was at Delta, United, Continental, etc.. when they went through BK.
Things like speculations, rumors, doom, gloom, and having the peanut gallery talk about you and your company in third person is all part of the game.
12-19-2011, 06:56 AM
#4693
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: ????
Posts: 579
let me put my spin.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
#4694
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,371
It's funny...
Life is so short that some people rather want $450,000 that being with their family enjoying. Age 65 should still be mandatory as a matter of safety.
Read this well young guys like me, get your 401K and save as much money as you can. Get out of the industry at or before hitting 60 years and enjoy your life while it last. At the end the only thing we take to our graves is the memories not the money.
Life is so short that some people rather want $450,000 that being with their family enjoying. Age 65 should still be mandatory as a matter of safety.
Read this well young guys like me, get your 401K and save as much money as you can. Get out of the industry at or before hitting 60 years and enjoy your life while it last. At the end the only thing we take to our graves is the memories not the money.
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
#4695
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 243
My understanding is due to the recent retirements at AA, there are no manditory retirements in 2012 for AA. In fact, prior to the couple of hundred Fall retirements, AA was scheduled to lose only 700 guys over the next five years due to retirement.
Now I do not know if AA will have organic growth in the next few years, I have AA buddies on both sides of the fence of that issue. The point being, even if the flow thru survives, there is no guarantee of AA requiring additional pilots over the next few years.
By the way, if your still flying at seventy, are you going to have a crew tag for your walker?
Now I do not know if AA will have organic growth in the next few years, I have AA buddies on both sides of the fence of that issue. The point being, even if the flow thru survives, there is no guarantee of AA requiring additional pilots over the next few years.
By the way, if your still flying at seventy, are you going to have a crew tag for your walker?
12-19-2011, 10:11 AM
#4696
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,371
Keep in mind that our captains flowing to AA was in anticipation of their upcoming retirements.
I know much perspective has been lost since this whole BK thing happened, but lets not forget that 2012 is the year when major retirements begin at all the legacy airlines, AA included.
This is not something AA, AMR, APA, or anybody else has control over. Those pilots due to hit 65 must go. Many will retire before 65. All of our flow-through agreements are still in place. The 824 flow through is a grievance that was awarded by another judge and cannot be thrown out. They must flow when AA needs them. A quick look back at the projected retirements at AA for 2012 and beyond will show that our 824 captains will be needed sooner rather than later.
So I know there is much doom and gloom right now. In reality all we have is uncertainty. Hang on to things we do know and take everything else with a grain of salt. Talk to anybody who was at Delta, United, Continental, etc.. when they went through BK.
Things like speculations, rumors, doom, gloom, and having the peanut gallery talk about you and your company in third person is all part of the game.
I know much perspective has been lost since this whole BK thing happened, but lets not forget that 2012 is the year when major retirements begin at all the legacy airlines, AA included.
This is not something AA, AMR, APA, or anybody else has control over. Those pilots due to hit 65 must go. Many will retire before 65. All of our flow-through agreements are still in place. The 824 flow through is a grievance that was awarded by another judge and cannot be thrown out. They must flow when AA needs them. A quick look back at the projected retirements at AA for 2012 and beyond will show that our 824 captains will be needed sooner rather than later.
So I know there is much doom and gloom right now. In reality all we have is uncertainty. Hang on to things we do know and take everything else with a grain of salt. Talk to anybody who was at Delta, United, Continental, etc.. when they went through BK.
Things like speculations, rumors, doom, gloom, and having the peanut gallery talk about you and your company in third person is all part of the game.
ATRs will be gone sooner that it was planned. That's about 360 pilots (10 pilots per plane most likely).
The first sign is the January lines, take a look of them. No Open Time, and lot of free days with reductions of flight time.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
12-19-2011, 10:13 AM
#4697
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,371
My understanding is due to the recent retirements at AA, there are no manditory retirements in 2012 for AA. In fact, prior to the couple of hundred Fall retirements, AA was scheduled to lose only 700 guys over the next five years due to retirement.
Now I do not know if AA will have organic growth in the next few years, I have AA buddies on both sides of the fence of that issue. The point being, even if the flow thru survives, there is no guarantee of AA requiring additional pilots over the next few years.
By the way, if your still flying at seventy, are you going to have a crew tag for your walker?
Now I do not know if AA will have organic growth in the next few years, I have AA buddies on both sides of the fence of that issue. The point being, even if the flow thru survives, there is no guarantee of AA requiring additional pilots over the next few years.
By the way, if your still flying at seventy, are you going to have a crew tag for your walker?
12-19-2011, 10:52 AM
#4698
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
let me put my spin.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
the 824 are not guaranteed anything in front of a BK judge. First AA and APA are on record as being against that arbitrators award. The Pref hiring maybe, maybe not that the MEC got for the AE pilots so the MEC can waive our contractual right s to the aircraft transfered to AA aint going to happen, gone in BK. OH by the way, our previous scope would have had all pilots on the AA seniority list now since all aircraft are owned by AA now. Our MEC gave that away for a maybe. Sorry only 240 numbered AE pilots left that have contractual rights, and that can be taken away in BK. NO MOVEMENT. Company made sure it will happen this way.
As a mainline pilot who has a pension that guarantees him/her after BK and average 50,000 per year annuity. I fly a medium size mainline aircraft and make 155,000 per year. I am 60, and you think I am going to give up an additional 450,000 dollar because I dont have enough sick time, vacation accrued to add to the 18 days off a monht and skate the last 5 years.
People are living in a dream world that the senior person is going to retire to make you happy. That senior pilot works for him/herself not for you. . Oh did you know Canada is making mandatory retirement illegal and so is the European union. Can you say 70.
The 824 plus those with numbers are part of an arbitrated agreement. That can NOT be tossed out without a seperate hearing and filing. That would require the current BK judge to step all over the previous judge who awarded the agreement in the first place. Not going to happen, especially since the flow-throughs don't cost anything.
The "everybody on property by Oct 11th" flow through is the only thing not protected. Again, it doesn't cost AMR anything to keep it but it is not covered. The other flow throughs are.
How much will AA shrink? That is the variable which will determin when as opposed to if the Eagle captains flow. Airbus and Boeing already loaned/financed AMR's purchase of the new A320s and 737s. Given the timing of that purchase and the bankrupcy it is safe to say that Airbus & Boeing were aware of what was going on. In other words, the purchase of those aircraft has no bearing on this BK. No aircraft will arrive until we emerge from this BK...that much is certain. But they will arrive, probably beginning sometime in 2013.
Regarding slashing the age 65 rule: Canada and Europe also have universal health care and guranteed 4 weeks of vacation per year plus a "13th" extra month's salary at the end of each year. I don't see anyone of those things happening here in the U.S. anytime soon. So don't use the argument that just because they are doing it means we will too.
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
#4699
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
One of the mechanics mentioned a Colgan Q400 was parked in the AA hangar a few weeks back for the execs to look at, he mentioned maybe Colgan would take over the turbo-prop feed for Eagle out of DFW. Normally I wouldn't read too much into the rumor mill but with the recent WARN letters for all ATR pilots in DFW comes the realization that this man may be right.
Has anyone else heard anything about this?
Has anyone else heard anything about this?
AMR kept claiming that "other" carriers could repace our flying and some had already expressed interest. This was misleading.
In reality, there was/is nobody who could replace our flying on the jet side. But, our prop flying is repalceable. By who, I never found out but pretty much guessed Colgan and/or Commutair. This could be what they are looking in to.
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