The Realization of United Express
02-21-2010, 06:44 PM
#41
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 250
Not making fun of you for having 70 seaters, I just think you and everyone else should demand proper pay for flying those seats. 1st of all, CAL who is our bread and butter and up until recently basically our entire operation, has a scope clause that doesn't permit us to fly anything bigger. I for one am happy about that and I hope they never cave. Like you said this is an entry level job and I want to move on eventually. Did it ever occur to you though that management doesn't want us to get 70 seaters because they know they'd have to pay us properly to fly them? If they are already paying us within a few dollars an hour of what you make to fly 70 seats to fly 50 seats, they wouldn't get away with a 2 dollar per hour increase to fly 70+ seat aircraft. Thats the problem. If you start paying FOs any more than around 40 per hour to fly 70 seats, you start losing the cost savings. Welcome to the downfall of our profession. Your entry level job just became your legacy.
02-21-2010, 07:45 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 138
It would have been nice if most of the majors hadn't gone bankrupt, lost their pensions and taken major pay cuts. The regionals are fighting an uphill battle and they are beginning to meet some of the majors being routed downhill.
02-21-2010, 08:32 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
The whole industry is headed towards a more usairways and united type operation. The cheapest bidder will win, the dirtiest airplane flies, and you pay extra for everything. It is a race to the bottom. I think if Continental and United merge you will get United service and "quality" with Continental gate agent surliness and "charm."
Keep reading the inflight magazines about how they are so proud of their product and services. I really dont know what they are so proud of. Continental has X number of hard working employees.... What they dont mention is that they are rapidly trying to outsource as many of those hard working employees as they can while deteriorating their product to a point that it is as crappy as everyone elses.
Call me jaded but all airline management wants is their bonus... there is no pride or long term goals associated with their careers.
Keep reading the inflight magazines about how they are so proud of their product and services. I really dont know what they are so proud of. Continental has X number of hard working employees.... What they dont mention is that they are rapidly trying to outsource as many of those hard working employees as they can while deteriorating their product to a point that it is as crappy as everyone elses.
Call me jaded but all airline management wants is their bonus... there is no pride or long term goals associated with their careers.
02-21-2010, 09:35 PM
#44
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Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 223
Oh yeah it is super fun when UAL mainline "steals" your EDCT time. I've timmed out due to that once. We already had like a 2 hour delay and then when it was close to our time a mainline plane landed at the same station. They stole our slot and did a quick turn....wouldn't be too bad, but they didn't have any seats on the mainline so we couldn't move any of our pax over. Then we had to wait like 2 or 3 more hours. Total delay was around 6 hours.
02-21-2010, 09:53 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
To the OP, yep, UAX sucks. It's sucked forever, just like Fred Flinstone said. It was funny when I came to XJT in 05 from what used to be a UAX carrier. CA's would say things like "we're CAL's redheaded stepchild", or "CAL treats us like crap", etc. These guys had NO idea what so ever what it was like to to be treated like crap by the mainline carrier you feed for. None what so ever.
Yo power user, as has been mentioned. Being back in the COEX world, the ramp situation has gotten better than when we left COEX. Less wait time for rampers now. Actually knida nice. CAL probably FINALLY figured out that having XJT planes sit on the ramp cost them money.
Agreed, I've flown UAX, COEX, and DelCon. I always thought that DAL treated both the Delcon carriers I've worked for relatively decent.
What year are you in?
Really? Where did you "hear" this? Think about it, with the cash position that XJT is in, combined with the BK threshold, do you REALLY think that XJT could do 30+ airplanes of flying at a loss for 2+ years? Can't happen.
See above.
Seriously? Are you really happy that your company has 70 seat planes on property? You ever have aspirations of moving on from this "entry level job"?
As far as your 50 seat rates go, yep, you FINALLY get paid more to fly the larger airframe. But something tells me you are ignorant, oh so ignorant that that wasn't always the case. Ask some of the guys that have been there a while. You know, back in the UAL BK days. Ask them about the "18 month pay freeze", and how long that really lasted. Ask them about flying 70/90 seat equipment at 50 seat rates. Rates that were below other 50 seat operators. As well as the disastrous effects that had on other pilot groups. Get a clue bud.
Wait! What?! I worked for ExpressJet from Nov 04-Feb 08. I was a EWR FO-IAH FO-EWR CA-ONT CA and the only place I never had to wait for rampers was ONT. It was quite common to wait for rampers in EWR and IAH. Maybe this has changed in the last year or two, but it certainly was common to wait when I worked at XE.
As far as your 50 seat rates go, yep, you FINALLY get paid more to fly the larger airframe. But something tells me you are ignorant, oh so ignorant that that wasn't always the case. Ask some of the guys that have been there a while. You know, back in the UAL BK days. Ask them about the "18 month pay freeze", and how long that really lasted. Ask them about flying 70/90 seat equipment at 50 seat rates. Rates that were below other 50 seat operators. As well as the disastrous effects that had on other pilot groups. Get a clue bud.
02-21-2010, 10:57 PM
#46
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: DC-6
Posts: 36
I work for XJT and just wanted to comment on my experience the past few months flying as United Express. I think I can speak for all of us when I say it has been shocking to see the type of service and conditions UAL provides to its express carriers. I don't know if it’s common or if Continental has just spoiled us for all these years but this is truly unbelievable. I was doing a walk around the other day and couldn't believe how filthy the aircraft was as I had never seen a plane so dirty before. One of our supervisors informed me that at CAL our planes are washed daily to maintain a clean appearance. I never knew that before, I guess I just always assumed our aircraft didn't get that dirty since we fly higher and faster.
Anyway after this, I went inside to help the flight attendant cross seat belts. I was appalled at how dirty the inside of the plane was. The flight attendant informed me that she was trying to do the best she could but at UAL they don't have cleaners cleaning the inside of the aircraft after every leg like they do at CAL. Again I never realized some airlines don't do this. Finally, I went to the back to use the Lav. It was absolutely appalling. I couldn't believe the smell and condition. Again, I was informed that at UAL, they don't come inside the aircraft after every leg, wipe down the lav, or spray air freshener. I never knew that this wasn't the norm.
Then our flight got underway and I waited for our PDC to come up on my FMS screen. I was then informed by the captain that at UAL, we don't get PDCs and we have to call and get our clearance. After waiting to get a word in for 10 mins I finally called and got the clearance. After we were in flight a while, I decided to send a weather message to get the latest TAF and metar for our destination since it didn't have digital ATIS. I was informed that at UAL, we don't have weather messages and have to rely on our 5 hour old TAFs in the weather packet we received prior to boarding. I couldn't believe it. About 40 mins from arriving, I went to send the in-range report to find out our gate, where the aircraft was going, if it was on time, where we were going, and to let ops know of our specials. Well, you guessed it, no in range reports at UAL, we have to call ops from in the air. This is something I have never done in my almost 5 years here. We have to call ops when we land to tell them we're on the ground? I constantly forget because again, I've never had to do this, it comes up on their computer as soon as we land and they are always there waiting for us. Not at UAL.
Waiting for marshallers to park us? Barely ever seen that, they are almost always waiting for us at the gate with no call required. I am quickly realizing how much extra work some of these other companies have to do in a given day! No wonder you guys are tired! While I realize a lot of this stuff isn't a big deal (with the exception of cleaning the aircraft cuz that’s nasty), it has really opened my eyes to how what we are used to isn't the norm. While I'm happy to get additional flying (but not happy about Mesa guys losing work), I'm really going to have to get used to this. What have your guys experiences been?
Anyway after this, I went inside to help the flight attendant cross seat belts. I was appalled at how dirty the inside of the plane was. The flight attendant informed me that she was trying to do the best she could but at UAL they don't have cleaners cleaning the inside of the aircraft after every leg like they do at CAL. Again I never realized some airlines don't do this. Finally, I went to the back to use the Lav. It was absolutely appalling. I couldn't believe the smell and condition. Again, I was informed that at UAL, they don't come inside the aircraft after every leg, wipe down the lav, or spray air freshener. I never knew that this wasn't the norm.
Then our flight got underway and I waited for our PDC to come up on my FMS screen. I was then informed by the captain that at UAL, we don't get PDCs and we have to call and get our clearance. After waiting to get a word in for 10 mins I finally called and got the clearance. After we were in flight a while, I decided to send a weather message to get the latest TAF and metar for our destination since it didn't have digital ATIS. I was informed that at UAL, we don't have weather messages and have to rely on our 5 hour old TAFs in the weather packet we received prior to boarding. I couldn't believe it. About 40 mins from arriving, I went to send the in-range report to find out our gate, where the aircraft was going, if it was on time, where we were going, and to let ops know of our specials. Well, you guessed it, no in range reports at UAL, we have to call ops from in the air. This is something I have never done in my almost 5 years here. We have to call ops when we land to tell them we're on the ground? I constantly forget because again, I've never had to do this, it comes up on their computer as soon as we land and they are always there waiting for us. Not at UAL.
Waiting for marshallers to park us? Barely ever seen that, they are almost always waiting for us at the gate with no call required. I am quickly realizing how much extra work some of these other companies have to do in a given day! No wonder you guys are tired! While I realize a lot of this stuff isn't a big deal (with the exception of cleaning the aircraft cuz that’s nasty), it has really opened my eyes to how what we are used to isn't the norm. While I'm happy to get additional flying (but not happy about Mesa guys losing work), I'm really going to have to get used to this. What have your guys experiences been?
Last edited by bennySODC6; 02-21-2010 at 11:08 PM. Reason: needed to add Alaska
02-21-2010, 11:06 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 122
For the record...not voting is treated as a no vote so your argument is moot. If 60% of your pilots didn't know there even was a drive you'd get the same results so get off your high horse. We all no how apathetic and lazy most of us are. Oh and most of our pilots are working 90 hrs a month too...if they want to so nananabooboo stick your head in doodoo. That last part only makes sense if you watch Tosh.0
02-22-2010, 06:55 AM
#48
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
For the record...not voting is treated as a no vote so your argument is moot. If 60% of your pilots didn't know there even was a drive you'd get the same results so get off your high horse. We all no how apathetic and lazy most of us are. Oh and most of our pilots are working 90 hrs a month too...if they want to so nananabooboo stick your head in doodoo. That last part only makes sense if you watch Tosh.0
Seriously? Are you really happy that your company has 70 seat planes on property? You ever have aspirations of moving on from this "entry level job"?
As far as your 50 seat rates go, yep, you FINALLY get paid more to fly the larger airframe. But something tells me you are ignorant, oh so ignorant that that wasn't always the case. Ask some of the guys that have been there a while. You know, back in the UAL BK days. Ask them about the "18 month pay freeze", and how long that really lasted. Ask them about flying 70/90 seat equipment at 50 seat rates. Rates that were below other 50 seat operators. As well as the disastrous effects that had on other pilot groups. Get a clue bud.
As far as your 50 seat rates go, yep, you FINALLY get paid more to fly the larger airframe. But something tells me you are ignorant, oh so ignorant that that wasn't always the case. Ask some of the guys that have been there a while. You know, back in the UAL BK days. Ask them about the "18 month pay freeze", and how long that really lasted. Ask them about flying 70/90 seat equipment at 50 seat rates. Rates that were below other 50 seat operators. As well as the disastrous effects that had on other pilot groups. Get a clue bud.
02-22-2010, 07:16 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
the 70 seaters were coming regardless i'm just happy we were able to give united such a good deal that all 65 of the 70 seaters up for grabs came to us. I know the whole "deal me an ace" thing and if that is what it took to make sure WE got it and not another airlines then I say we did the right thing.
Hope you enjoy you're entry level job, because it's going to be a career destination.
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