CrippleHawk

one more thing


average pay as an FO is around 25K to 27K (If you worked for 4 years at a regional)

CANAM

The program outlined that many many people missed important cues regarding the poor and dangerous operating procedures of companies like Colgan and Valuejet.

dudas3

[quote=USMCFLYR;761312]The public wants dirt cheap EVERYTHING!
Milk, gas, mortage rates, AND AIRLINE tickets.
It isn't the flying publics fault.
The public will pay what it costs to fly.
If not then they will drive.
Some still drove when gas was over $5.00/gal, others cut back.
The same would happen if the INDUSTRY charged prices that could make a profit.
IMO.

USMCFLYR


Very true, the general public does want cheap everything. I do think that frontline could have done a better job on reporting about how thin the operating margins/costs are at the airlines, and what the consequences are of selling tickets so cheap. We all know that everybody wants to fly across country for $99 or less but that just isn't economical for the airlines. I know, I sound like management, but people need to know that by going for the cheapest fare, they help to contribute to the problems in this industry. In order to make up for the loss in revenue the airlines are forced to furlough, cut wages/benefits, and outsource to the regional airlines so that they can cut costs and still make a profit. Do I agree that the airlines are “forced” to do these things? Yes and no. Personally I think they should raise fares to make up for the loss, but then of course they would lose market share and people would just go to a cheaper airline. It's a double edged sword and a never ending cycle of selling your product for cheaper than what it costs to produce that hurts everybody in this profession, and the general public needs to understand that they are a part of that cycle as well. The old, “You get what you pay for,” slogan comes to mind. But Frontline didn’t talk about that at all. But what do I know, I’m just another one of those “incompetent” regional pilots that we all hear about in the news.

Pielut

I think the show should have been longer because there were alot of topics that O'brien just grazed the surface on. One of main points that really stuck is the major having no liability for safety at their regional partners. If it has mainline paint it should be flown by mainline pilots, the regional carriers should not be able to use the major carriers livery. It should go back to paint like the old ASA and Skywest liveries. That way the customer knows they are not flying on mainline aircraft.

Roger Cohen- where did they find this scumbag?

I would have liked to seen more discussion on how pay and benefits/retirement has been destroyed in the last decade.

Overall I will have to take back a few negative comments about Mr. O'Brien, I thought he did a decent job. I did think the clip of him flying his cirrus was a bit cheesy and self serving.

BrandedPilot

They also fail to point out that a FO making $16000.00 ...is making that money BEFORE taxes, union dues, uniform expense/reimbursement, and PAY FOR TRAINING.

Also needed to cover that if you quit most regionals you owe a training contract of $8000.00+.

"We have to move those planes"

astrojet

Cohen reminds me of when Steenland told the NWA employees they should go dumpster diving, and take your date for a walk in the woods, to save money. Colgan was always a scumbag outfit...they flew a couple beech 1900's for years and had a bad rep back then, until presidential bought them eventually shutting down. then a few years later old man colgan reinvented the airline this time codesharing with usair. codesharing is false advertising and regionals should not be allowed to use the mayor airline logos or paint schemes. did you know mohamed atta the guy that flew the 767 into the WTC boarded a colgan flight in portland me. the best pinnacle can do is absorb all the colgan operation under the pinnacle name to avoid all this bad publicity.

rickair7777

Safety is relative. I'm not sure I've ever had reason to feel unsafe on a US flight either. But not every flight in the US has the high level of safety that we have come to expect expect, some of them have more like African or South American safety levels.

But I have been in the JS a couple of times and thought to myself "Gee, I'm glad I'm up here to keep an eye on things". One flight into SOCAL in particular one pilot was reading US Today, the other was texting...descending through 7000' (seven, not one seven) on a Sunday afternoon in some of the busiest GA airspace in the world. I did what any good safety pilot would do...watched out for ASEL.

My airline has actually been on a campaign to tighten up cockpit professionalism post-colgan.... and it seems to be working. I hope other regionals are doing the same.

tsd685

I thought it was a good report. That FO should have resolved his issue before he took off, backstory aside.

I really don't think that telling people how they're purchasing power affects the industry would help at all.

things aren't going to change until the public sees a large rate of acceptable hull loss and they feel unsafe. They won't differentiate between regionals and mainline. Yes, I am proposing that a lot of people are going to die before things change. And it will come with regulation, not "responsible management."

so I suppose they have us wrapped around their finger because none of us want to be the hull loss, so we'll be safe enough to stay alive. gotta love aviation.

flynwmn

I burned that booklet

Nevets

That right there is the key. If mainline shoulders the liability, it may not make sense for them to continue this practice.

Here as well. Although I sometimes feel as though they are taking it a bit too far sometimes.