IlliniPilot99

exactly....ohhh sigh...damnit

I actually wanted to see more of the ALPA guy

forgot to bid

It was absolutely the wrong example to use and the FO does come off as a scumbag. How do we know that there weren't 1/2 weights on the plane not counted until the CA counted them? For that reason I'm not worried that the CA supposedly cheated on the weights but rather the belief that 292lbs overweight makes the Saab 340 dangerously unsafe. I'd be fine with someone saying that if every single bag and passenger put on that plane was weighed and not averaged. Why not tell the folks that story?

Also, there wasn't much on the actual crash of the Colgan Dash 8. Not enough about how it got slow and possible reasons behind the events that followed from the pitching up to the raising of the flaps. I'd like to have seen more on that.

To me those were the two misses in what otherwise was an accurate well done documentary.

kalyx522

I never denied that "falsification" of the load manifest is illegal and a fireable offense. However, neither the FO nor the documentary revealed the full background of the incident.

It was not a black and white situation, or maybe you might think it is depending on if you think every crew who has ever accommodated a jumpseater should be fired.
(And if you do, I respect your opinion but you need not read further or reply. Also, holding that opinion is one thing - actually taking the step to have the crew fired is another.)

This FO had problems (as he truthfully said! - "They said I was the problem"), and was getting fired. Apparently he was not buddies with said captain, and decided if he was going to get fired, he would drag the captain down with him. Unfortunately the captain provided that opportunity when he helped a commuting jumpseater. I do not think he would have done it if he ever thought it would compromise the safety of the flight. Yes, what the captain did was illegal - but it was hardly dangerous. (I'm not saying flying overgross is never dangerous.) But that is what the documentary portrayed. The FO said he wrote to the FAA in the name of safety - but did he reveal in the documentary the part about getting fired (for being an unsafe pilot himself or who knows what?) and trying to get the captain fired as well? If he had been so truly concerned with this "very dangerous" situation as he says, why didn't he stand up to the captain? Jared is not exactly "my way or the highway" person. And before anyone says maybe the FO was afraid of retribution from company if he walked off from the flight - even if it had escalated to the point where the company got involved, the FO had to know that he would be in the right. Yet he didn't bring up any objections until after the fact when he decided to use this against the captain. He would have never brought up this event (nonevent) to the company or FAA if he himself were not already getting canned - because he knew he would get in trouble as well since he went along with the whole thing.

I feel nothing but contempt and disgust for rats that try to get their fellow pilots fired without first addressing issues with them or pro-standards. When they go straight to the CEO of the company/FAA, their motive is clear. And that's not safety, it's vengeance. It is so transparent that this sleaze was never concerned about "safety" despite what he says in the documentary. His actions at the time of alleged danger speak volumes to the contrary, and his actions afterward speak volumes about his character. Crying safety later merely helped him to achieve his goal. To me, Ben Coats is worse than Roger Cohen, worse than a scab. At least Roger has the excuse that it's his job to talk BS about the regionals. Ben deliberately, wholly and so thoroughly slammed a fellow pilot under the bus.

My point was this scumbag and his half truth "testimony" did not belong in the documentary. What a disappointment that he got his 5 minutes of undeserved fame. Surely they could have found more respectable characters such as the other two former pilots. There are so many practices that Colgan and other regionals engage in (dispatch, scheduling, maintenance, mgmt.) that could've been shed light on. This situation of a captain ghostriding a jumpseater does not even come close in the scale of dangerous actions.

Lastly, the captain paid dearly for his mistake when he lost his certificate and got fired. Why did this FO/producers of the show feel it necessary to rub salt on the wound and smear the captain's actual full name on public TV multiple times. Couldn't they have blurred the name at least? If you're going to single someone out and drag their reputation through mud on TV, at least give them a chance to come on the same show and defend their side of the story. Even Jerry Springer does this.

USMCFLYR

The public wants dirt cheap EVERYTHING!
Milk, gas, mortage rates, AND AIRLINE tickets.
It isn't the flying publics fault.
The public will pay what it costs to fly.
If not then they will drive.
Some still drove when gas was over $5.00/gal, others cut back.
The same would happen if the INDUSTRY charged prices that could make a profit.
IMO.

USMCFLYR

Btw - I have my own family watching this program. Even in the first 20 minutes my family's eyes have been opened.
Qoute from one of them (right after they talked about getting a hotel room for $50/night)
"Is that man insane?"
From my littel corner of the world - this job is doing everything for the public that you wanted it to do.

chazbird

The show was not a bad piece but omitting this was negligent reporting: Randolph Babbitt; President of ALPA 1990-1998, FAA Administrator 2009 - ? When were most of the scope agreements whittled away? What's the Peter Principle again? Did PBS even ask or mention what ALPA, or APA and their members could have done to contain the low cost wages? No.

USMCFLYR

I'm taking this from what friends of mine (non-aviation type of people) have already written me after the show. The questions you raise above are too far into the weeds for the scope of a 0:57 minute Frontline report.

I, as a pilot, and someone interested in the aviation world would have liked to have seen more detail, but for those just learning about this type of business practices for the first time it was all good information IMO. One person inparticular even believed what the one family said on the show - - that when she bought a ticket from Continental that she expected it was on the actual Continental Airline. When I pointed out to her that it also said that the type of aircraft would be a Q400 for example right there on the itineary, her response to me was "well do YOU always read all the fine print on everything?"

Nope...I don't, but I have to admit I've never felt unsafe on any regional or mainline flight that I've ever been on. Maybe I have been lucky or maybe a HUGE majority of those pilots really were well trained and as professional as I have always believed them to be.

Overall - BRAVO Frontline. I hope you have more investigative reports on the aviation industry - and next let's get this on Primetime.

USMCFLYR

UpThere

Amen to that...

CrippleHawk

Roger Cohen is wrong on regional FO salary. there top pay not average pay is is an around



32856.86


based on the average of all these airlines

TSA 31080
PSA 36000
PINACLE 37800
PIEDMONT 31968
MESABA 36000
LYNX 27720
ISLAND Air 34560
HORIZON 43200
GULFSREAM 20700
Great Lakes 19800
GoJet 31968
Compass 37800
Commute Air 29520
Colgan 28800
CAPE Air 18900
Air WISCONSAN 39600
SKYWEST 36000
REpublic 33300
MESA 33724
ExpressJET 39600
COMAIR 36900
ASA 37800
EAGLE 32968

Pinchanickled

Rogen Cohen is the kindof used car salesman that just gets under your skin and makes you walk away.

Wow....how did Rogen Cohen become head of the RAA?

And what did the CEO Phil Trenary mean when he said ....."We fixed it!".......hmmmm......what got fixed??

cyrcadian

Are you for real?