Burrito Bandit

First, I'll admit I am someone that is low time, trying to come up the ranks and pay my dues but I see part of this proposal as a disaster.

I agree that more training always improves safety. But the 1,500 hour ATP minimums I disagree with. This is why: When Joe Pilot finishes his commercial single and multi training he could anywhere from 250 hours on up. So when he goes hunting for a job, 250 hours isn't enough. What's Joe Pilot going to do? Find the cheapest (lets admit it, we are all broke) way to gain the hours needed to meet the current hiring minimums to stay competitive. Joe Pilot is going to go a couple different ways to accomplish this. A) Earn a CFI/CFII/MEI rating and instruct until he is satisfied with his hours. During this he could be giving quality instruction or just be a yoke holder to log time. B) Buy time the cheapest way possible, either in C152's, J3 Cubs or a multi time building program. C) Fly banners, sky divers and other low time pilot positions, whenever insurance allows him to come on board. Or D) Military flight officer.

So out of those options which one most like 121 flying? A? Not in my mind. How does 2,000 hours in the pattern flying a 152, 172, Seminole, Dutchess transfer into flying a CRJ, ScareBus or Boeing? I don't see it. C? From I have read here and heard from other sources, banner towing and skydiving is still legal time, but not always accepted. D) I was enlisted, served my time and left with an honorable discharge and the GI Bill. Therefore I don't have first hand experience with the selection process, commissioning, and the going through flight school... So I couldn't fly, but as the saying goes "My parents couldn't afford to put me through college, but Uncle Sam can." Here I am, earned my ratings and going down path A. In my mind B is the closest to it. If you buy into a 'academy' type school. Isn't the the goal here, to "train like you fight" for that 121 dream job?

I agree with higher education, experience and ratings should be rewarded with better compensation. But if everyone should have an ATP before interviewing, how does that new standard become any better than the current? What's to say a first year FO with an ATP doesn't get paid minimum wage?

TMoney

You hit the nail on the head with that one!

CaptFuzz

The college degrees required for other professional, licensed jobs are professional degrees in their field. Lawyers need law degrees. Doctors need medical degrees. Engineers need engineering degrees. I'm unaware of any profession that requires a degree unrelated to the career field. If pilots are to be considered professionals in that way, a degree in political science, psychology, biology, or engineering (in which I have my degree) wouldn't make sense.

Now I think an airline having a requirement for a degree for their hiring minimums makes sense. It gives some indication about the general experience and abilities of the individual and could factor into whether they want them as an employee. However, a non-related degree has little bearing on your ability to safely and effectively practice a profession.

And as was mentioned by BoilerUP, the military requires a college degree to be an comissioned officer, not to be a pilot. Even if the vast majority of pilot warrant officers have degrees, it is not a requirement.

Just to be clear I am in favor of increasing mins for all 121 pilots to an ATP certificate (and don't think a four year college degree makes sense as an ATP requirement).

CaptFuzz

The idea that people who are legally in this country, who are legally allowed to work in this country, and are otherwise fully qualified for a job should be legally excluded from that job because you don't want as much competition when you apply for it....

I don't know that I can even respond to that in language that would be appropriate for this forum.

jayray

Yeah, it is not like we are a country of immigrants who have only been here for a few hundred years. What's that? We are? Oh yeah.

I've got to agree, the opinion that we are going to disallow people who are legally allowed to work her here the opportunity to work is asinine. Pure selfeshness and nothing more.

Lighteningspeed

Then don't. Stop trolling airline forum and go back to your C152. Change in hiring stds are coming whether student wannabes like you want them or not.

Lighteningspeed

Selfishness you say? Try getting a flying job in Europe and then tell us how that will go without European citizenship. If they require it why shouldn't we require it in the US. We have the most liberal immigration and employment policy in the world. Either you have difficulty with your reading or just plain too lazy to read the entire post. Don't take it out of context and twist it to suit your agenda. Whatever they maybe.

Requiring citizenship for certain jobs is nothing new or a novelty. It is a fact for many jobs in the US, including the private sector.

blastoff

Save the fake outrage, it's a two-way street. We use to immigrate people to this country when there was a shortage of qualified workers. Not to mention the elephant in the room...

HermannGraf

Talk about Nonsense

The only Regional shrinking are the ones owned by majors (eccept for Mesa but that is another story) or do you mean that Republic, Skywest, GoJet, Pinnacle and even Colgan are shrinking?

The amount of 350 wonders hired 2007-2008 are not many at all like you would like people to believe. 2% of the Regional pilots actually. The FAA has the numbers. Check them out. Some Regionals kept 1000 TT and 100 ME even during 2007-2008. I should know as my Regional had that. My class 2007 had only guys with an average of 3000 hours and even a couple of guys with 7000 hours TT. All of them seemed to be able to afford the $23 for the first year as they where there.

You dont know squat and are just guessing without having done any home work and then you like to call others that done it for "nonsense".

Other you are an old fart at a major with very small windows, negative attitude and think he knows it all because he says so or you are a young punk that is bitter and thinks that is everyones else fault he can not move forward fast enough in his career. What ever you are you sure sound like voices from the 1930 and 40 in Germany, trying to blaim your problems on foreigners and who knows what else.

Maybe you should learn another language than English and get more global and try your luck in other places. I had 15 years as a Commercial pilot, worked for 3 companies, many thousends hours and more than 1000 just in Turbine time before I started with my Regional (you can call me wonder if you like) and I do not have a negative attitude like you because of that. I could be complaining that I should have been at a major instead but when I hear the attitude and what comes out from some of the major pilots mouth I am glad that I am at the Regionals where most do not have other options than just be humble. All roads are not easy, all are different and one has to do the best of it. I do not blaim others if i cannot move forward. that' for sure.

We all had to start at $23. I wish we could change the pay. Heck I want to get $123 to start but that is dreaming at the moment.

If you cannot afford to take a job then look for something else or try to change what Regional pilots are being paid in an active way or maybe just maybe you should think about even adapting your way of living to the $23 an hour for the first year like most of us had to.............

HermannGraf

Yes Sir, You do (both the lecture form the Alien from out of space and yes you need the security clearance) if you are a legal Resident and (very important) a Pilot working for a US Airline. Every time a Legal Resident wants to work for a US Airline he has to open an account with Homeland Security and get a Security Clearance and that Clearance has to be renewed every year for recurrent. And that Legal resident pilot working at a US Airline has been checked more in FBI files, fingerprints and everything else than any US born pilot. That is what I ment with being cleared. I did not mean a Military clearance to read secret files woooho....

Another note, Many Legal Residents have American family. (American spouse and kids). What you are trying to do is discriminate family members of Americans. Shame on you.

I am sure that todays US militaries have better values, more connected to what build this great country. And yes I can say it because I am also becoming American and that very soon.

Most of my family are Americans and I kept my old nationality to give my American part of the family the opportunity to travel and live in Europe if they wanted. This country was built by immigrants. We are all created as equals like all immigrants that build this country wanted it to be.
You should go back and study your history and constitution. Yes I am doing it. At the same time read Mein kampf by a known fellow with Ideas simmilar to yours.

How are you going to chase me or discriminate the immigrants that become Americans like me...(you probably would think "darn another one escape by becoming American")....will you discriminate me for my religion or political views??