DryMotorBoatin

Did anybody ever think maybe this guy had a lousy FO? Maybe he just simply didnt feel like hand flyin AND coverin for the other empty suit next to him. Whatever the case, I think all decisions should be made by first asking "What would Sully do?"

eaglefly

Pound.........pound........thump...........thump (beating of chest).

We're all capable of hand-flying jet aircraft or else we wouldn't be passing training/checking events. The point is, should this be something EVERY PIC determines given the specifics of THAT flight or is it something stripped of their control and placed in the control of others with nothing to lose ?

I say the former.

The chest-thumpers have allowed their testosterone to override their common sense on what's practical and prudent.

EACH pilot has the right to make their choice based on the situation and the meaningless bickering of others regarding their decisions or what "they" would do is pointless.

Now............carry on kids.

eaglefly

Agreed.

Youth and hormones in action.

eaglefly

Sully would ditch the plane, check the cabin twice (the second time for newspapers) and then write a book.

higney85

I have stayed out of the chest beating for the reason that I have no dog in the fight, but am one of the park rangers for where the battle is happening. The company has not challenged PIC authority to issue this suspension. The company is trying to bend other policies to cover this refusal of the airplane. This CA in question has NO blemishes, utmost respect, and is not one that has a history of being "sloppy". This CA performed the duties of a true professional by evaluating the situation, the risk, and making a call on both judgement and experience. The union is grieving this suspension and I would expect this issue to get rectified in short order.

Never compromise SAFETY? or is it SAVINGS?

Blueskies21

Don't give management ideas, you think pay is bad now... wait till they're only paying allowance. Personally I don't think a nine year old could, but then I don't have a 9 year old so I don't really have a method to evaluate their skills.

As far as the autopilot at 600 thing, at my previous airline if you didn't hand fly to 10,000 ft the guy next to you was probably gonna think you were a pansy, many guys hand flew all the way to cruise. At XJ most guys DO turn on the autopilot at 600', I've seen some make it to 1000' so it's definately a company culture thing. I was told that XJ is that way b/c of the Minneapolis FSDO.

Are you on the 900?

xjcaptain

At XJ it is allowed as long as it is covered in the briefing. No requirement to have it on at 600' other than for RNAV departures.

1900luxuryliner

I'm not understanding the "highest level of safety" argument; at least not the way it is being interpreted. If we all operated the way a lot of you are interpreting the phrase "highest level of safety", then we would never take off if there were the possibility of light ice accumulation, if there were a chance of a thunderstorm being within 100 miles of the flight planned route, if the visibility was less than 10 miles, if the aircraft had any MELs, if the braking action was less than good, etc. Flying airplanes if all about calculated risk, and keeping that risk within an acceptable margin of safety. Every pilot's acceptable margin of safety falls within a different range. I also don't understand how disagreeing with a CA's decision is eroding his authority. I think the KLM CA, involved in the Tenerife disaster, had all the authority in the world to make the decisions he made. However, most of us probably do not agree with the decisions made in that accident. At least I would certainly hope not. If I refused to take a flight, because the arm rest was missing on the aircraft; and I need something to rest my arm on while I do my sodoku puzzle, I would certainly hope that my company would ask me what the hell I was thinking. Just as others have said, just because you are the final authority, it doesn't mean that you can't and won't be held accountable for your decisions. Like I said before; in the end, there may have been a multitude of factors that influence this CA's decision. We don't know the full story. If fatigue, or anything else were contributing factors, then perhaps his decision was 100% acceptable and reasonable. I don't know enough about what happened to judge his decision.

contrails

Most at Mesaba on the CRJ turn the A/P on at 600 feet?? Wow that is early.

What is with the Minneapolis FSDO? I'm curious to hear what the deal with that is after you mentioned it.

Blueskies21

I'm not sure exactly what the deal is with the Minneapolis FSDO except apparently they worship at the altar of automation, basically their viewpoint is that you should operate at the highest level of automation available at all times. Or so I'm told, I didn't ever go to the FSDO to ask them.
xjcaptain; I know you CAN handfly at XJ, I was just observing that most don't. I found that odd based on my previous airline experience. Also I know that the RNAV departure autopilot requirement is an XJ op spec, previously I hand flew RNAV departures with the FD. None of that is an indictment of XJ, I love it. Just pointing out my experience.