ASA/Vietnam/Mekong combined thread
06-28-2010, 08:53 AM
#331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
That "suffering" translates to a paycheck that no regional airline will ever pay. Otherwise, the huge amount of time away from home AND all the BS while there is not worth it.
For me, it's borderline not worth it at the current terms and conditions. I'm glad I don't have a 13 month contract to fulfill !!!!!
06-28-2010, 10:31 AM
#333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
Tony . . .
I truly do hear and understand what you guys are saying. I hope nobody takes my prior post as being flamebait. It is not meant to be.
I a perfect world we all could work for SWA or FedEX, work 2 on with 5 off, live in San Diego, have a beautiful wife and perfect kids! Ha ha! I realize that is not the reality for most of us.
Truly, please fly safe out there! I hope you find a really good flying job back in the US. When your contract is up. As a side note, a former Skywester, who we both know -- lives in Colorado Springs, first name Jason, last name begins with the letter "T" - I know he recently got a corporate job, and he seems to really enjoy it. I read his posts on Facebook all the time. He might have some connections for you.
I will help you out in anyway I can, although I don't imagine you really want to come back to Skywest.
Fly safe!
I a perfect world we all could work for SWA or FedEX, work 2 on with 5 off, live in San Diego, have a beautiful wife and perfect kids! Ha ha! I realize that is not the reality for most of us.
Truly, please fly safe out there! I hope you find a really good flying job back in the US. When your contract is up. As a side note, a former Skywester, who we both know -- lives in Colorado Springs, first name Jason, last name begins with the letter "T" - I know he recently got a corporate job, and he seems to really enjoy it. I read his posts on Facebook all the time. He might have some connections for you.
I will help you out in anyway I can, although I don't imagine you really want to come back to Skywest.
Fly safe!
06-28-2010, 01:14 PM
#334
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 74 FO
Posts: 97
copied from the other thread
nice job! you guys are going to let them stick it in you and break it off. Pilots accepting those conditions have done no favors to the profession.
FWIW- here is my gig
-Month on, month off
-paid travel to and from home every month (between $2-3000)
-Paid housing and vehicle.(the housing here is very expensive for western standard)
-Domestic worker and a guard
-last year my net was greater than 150
I worked 6 months for that piece of change.
top dog here has been here 6 years on a Falcon 900 and pulls 3 weeks on 3 off for 17,000Euro per month plus per diem, housing and tickets.
FWIW- here is my gig
-Month on, month off
-paid travel to and from home every month (between $2-3000)
-Paid housing and vehicle.(the housing here is very expensive for western standard)
-Domestic worker and a guard
-last year my net was greater than 150
I worked 6 months for that piece of change.
top dog here has been here 6 years on a Falcon 900 and pulls 3 weeks on 3 off for 17,000Euro per month plus per diem, housing and tickets.
06-28-2010, 01:59 PM
#335
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,561
was just turned on to this thread yesterday. Depressing. I work in central Africa on a 145. I can barely tolerate it with the terms & conditions I have. People are going to be sorely disappointed when they get there and reality sets in.
FWIW- here is my gig
-Month on, month off
-paid travel to and from home every month (between $2-3000)
-Paid housing and vehicle.(the housing here is very expensive for western standard)
-Domestic worker and a guard
-last year my net was greater than 150
I worked 6 months for that piece of change.
enjoy your internship in Asia
FWIW- here is my gig
-Month on, month off
-paid travel to and from home every month (between $2-3000)
-Paid housing and vehicle.(the housing here is very expensive for western standard)
-Domestic worker and a guard
-last year my net was greater than 150
I worked 6 months for that piece of change.
enjoy your internship in Asia
06-28-2010, 06:26 PM
#339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 328
Okay I realize there are some delicate egos we're trampling on here so I'll put this as gently as I can. You are looking at things through your prism and rendering judgement based on your experience from your corner of the world. Did you ever stop to consider that maybe those of us actually living and working overseas might be looking at things through a wee bit wider lense?
I am not beating my big hairy chest here, if 40 clowns want to go to Vietnam for cheap on Bill and Ted's Excellent Southeast Asian Adventure who am I to stop them? They will be laughed at and mocked by the entire expat community but that is no skin off my nose other than they will be giving American contract pilots a bad name. God help you if you get sick or injured overseas because ALPA sure isn't going to be there for you. I don't want to be overly dramatic with never ending tales of horror, but contract work is not to be taken lightly the hazards are real and your life and livelihood are quite literally on the line. I dont know how many other ways to say it, it's not about undercutting or being the lowest bidder. We are far, far away from the backbiting and squabbling of the US airline industry. My earlier mention of Go Jets was probably a mistake because it only feeds the false assumption that the rest of the world operates just like the US, it doesn't. We work for high pay under difficult conditions, and I don't mean difficult conditions like "boy I really got reemed by scheduling on reserve this month".. difficult conditions like "how quickly can I get to the airport and get myself out of here if the sh$t hits the fan?"
Working overseas is not a career "stepping stone" or a means to an end. It's not about time building, resume padding, or advancing your career. In the contract business we live paycheck to paycheck and you treat every one like it's your last because you never know when you might have to suddenly flee with nothing but the clothes on your back. Anyone willing to take on this kind of work on for some imagined career gain is naive and gullible beyond words. You think we sit around and dream of the day we can come back to work in the US? A lot of expats I know are just trying to stash away enough cash until the day they can leave this crappy industry forever. As for the US regional airline industry I wouldnt go back to work in that cess pool in a million years. Sorry to burst your bubble but if I ever came back to work in the US it is very unlikely it would be for ANY regional. I'm not p!ssing on those who made that choice, but if you decide to head overseas and crap on my lawn don't expect appreciation. We could get into a deeper discussion here that would probably be better to have over beers than online. But in our world we don't chase carrots. In cotract work there is no tomorrow, only TODAY. Don't show me what you will pay me 10 years from now, show me what you will pay me NOW. We are not cogs in a wheel we are free agents who come and go as we please and likewise they can get rid of you in the blink of an eye and I wouldn't have it any other way. To me a job at a traditional seniority based regional is a lot like Amway. The more people you get underneath you the more you can get, and if you reach this level you can get this much.. sorry no thanks. I am not giving the finger to poor working stiffs stuck in the regional airline system. That's my opinion you may not agree, we can argue about the US regional industry because that something we all know about. But non of you really understand working on contracts overseas, I would suggest a lot less talking and a lot more listening to the free wisdom that is being dispensed here by those in the know.
Somebody asked what the answer is. The answer is obvious, you don't go work in Vietnam for crappy below market terms. There is no other answer. This isn't a "we take the contract and negotiate a better deal later" type of thing. Get that out of your head. There is no LATER, there is only that 13 month contract. You get it all up front in that contract because there might not be anything after that. That is how contract flying works and if the deal is not acceptable you walk. If you get nothing else out of what I've said take that with you.
I am not beating my big hairy chest here, if 40 clowns want to go to Vietnam for cheap on Bill and Ted's Excellent Southeast Asian Adventure who am I to stop them? They will be laughed at and mocked by the entire expat community but that is no skin off my nose other than they will be giving American contract pilots a bad name. God help you if you get sick or injured overseas because ALPA sure isn't going to be there for you. I don't want to be overly dramatic with never ending tales of horror, but contract work is not to be taken lightly the hazards are real and your life and livelihood are quite literally on the line. I dont know how many other ways to say it, it's not about undercutting or being the lowest bidder. We are far, far away from the backbiting and squabbling of the US airline industry. My earlier mention of Go Jets was probably a mistake because it only feeds the false assumption that the rest of the world operates just like the US, it doesn't. We work for high pay under difficult conditions, and I don't mean difficult conditions like "boy I really got reemed by scheduling on reserve this month".. difficult conditions like "how quickly can I get to the airport and get myself out of here if the sh$t hits the fan?"
Working overseas is not a career "stepping stone" or a means to an end. It's not about time building, resume padding, or advancing your career. In the contract business we live paycheck to paycheck and you treat every one like it's your last because you never know when you might have to suddenly flee with nothing but the clothes on your back. Anyone willing to take on this kind of work on for some imagined career gain is naive and gullible beyond words. You think we sit around and dream of the day we can come back to work in the US? A lot of expats I know are just trying to stash away enough cash until the day they can leave this crappy industry forever. As for the US regional airline industry I wouldnt go back to work in that cess pool in a million years. Sorry to burst your bubble but if I ever came back to work in the US it is very unlikely it would be for ANY regional. I'm not p!ssing on those who made that choice, but if you decide to head overseas and crap on my lawn don't expect appreciation. We could get into a deeper discussion here that would probably be better to have over beers than online. But in our world we don't chase carrots. In cotract work there is no tomorrow, only TODAY. Don't show me what you will pay me 10 years from now, show me what you will pay me NOW. We are not cogs in a wheel we are free agents who come and go as we please and likewise they can get rid of you in the blink of an eye and I wouldn't have it any other way. To me a job at a traditional seniority based regional is a lot like Amway. The more people you get underneath you the more you can get, and if you reach this level you can get this much.. sorry no thanks. I am not giving the finger to poor working stiffs stuck in the regional airline system. That's my opinion you may not agree, we can argue about the US regional industry because that something we all know about. But non of you really understand working on contracts overseas, I would suggest a lot less talking and a lot more listening to the free wisdom that is being dispensed here by those in the know.
Somebody asked what the answer is. The answer is obvious, you don't go work in Vietnam for crappy below market terms. There is no other answer. This isn't a "we take the contract and negotiate a better deal later" type of thing. Get that out of your head. There is no LATER, there is only that 13 month contract. You get it all up front in that contract because there might not be anything after that. That is how contract flying works and if the deal is not acceptable you walk. If you get nothing else out of what I've said take that with you.
