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Old 01-26-2010, 08:02 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by dozer
There will be many of us at SKW that will wait at least a decade to upgrade, at the most junior base. And thats being OPTIMISTIC.









I fly quite a lot with the number 1 & 2 fo's in my domicile, they're in the top dozen or so f.o.'s at SkyWest. Neither have been here for a decade yet... The number one f.o. at LAX will be going to upgrade in March, didn't think there were any others past the decade mark?
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:17 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Paid2fly
I fly quite a lot with the number 1 & 2 fo's in my domicile, they're in the top dozen or so f.o.'s at SkyWest. Neither have been here for a decade yet... The number one f.o. at LAX will be going to upgrade in March, didn't think there were any others past the decade mark?
We expanded at a rate that I doubt we'll see again. The SkyWest seniority list almost doubled in two years, which is why we had such a quick upgrade. Now, to make jet captain, junior folks and new hires would have to see upwards of 2000 pilots hired behind them, a feat that even in (consistent) good times would take at least four years. The reason Eagle has such a long upgrade is because of the size of their pilot group and substantial portion of lifers. I reckon we're in exactly the same boat now so I don't think a minimum 5+ year upgrade in the jet will be unusual. Not pessimistic, just looking at the numbers.
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:22 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by duvie
We expanded at a rate that I doubt we'll see again. The SkyWest seniority list almost doubled in two years, which is why we had such a quick upgrade. Now, to make jet captain, junior folks and new hires would have to see upwards of 2000 pilots hired behind them, a feat that even in (consistent) good times would take at least four years. The reason Eagle has such a long upgrade is because of the size of their pilot group and substantial portion of lifers. I reckon we're in exactly the same boat now so I don't think a minimum 5+ year upgrade in the jet will be unusual. Not pessimistic, just looking at the numbers.
Absolutely...guys I talk with are still drinking the quick-upgrade Koolaid, and I can't for the life of me understand why. Junior FO's today, barring any explosive growth will be looking at a 10 year upgrade. Period.
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:38 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
Junior FO's today, barring any explosive growth will be looking at a 10 year upgrade. Period.
I have been suspecting this for a while now, and am starting to come to terms with it....
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:39 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by waflyboy
I have been suspecting this for a while now, and am starting to come to terms with it....
LoL I'm not...I wish I could accept it, but I'm out.
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:00 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by duvie
We expanded at a rate that I doubt we'll see again. The SkyWest seniority list almost doubled in two years, which is why we had such a quick upgrade. Now, to make jet captain, junior folks and new hires would have to see upwards of 2000 pilots hired behind them, a feat that even in (consistent) good times would take at least four years. The reason Eagle has such a long upgrade is because of the size of their pilot group and substantial portion of lifers. I reckon we're in exactly the same boat now so I don't think a minimum 5+ year upgrade in the jet will be unusual. Not pessimistic, just looking at the numbers.
I don't think there will be as many lifers once airlines like American lose half their pilots within the next six years or so. Who knows though, I know the movement is slow now but I'd like to think its bound to pick up sometime within the next 10 years...
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:04 AM
  #127  
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I hope SkyWest doesn't grow. Cause if we are growing that means fewer jobs at the legacy airlines. SkyWest is a good place to be but I for one don't want my career to be complete at SkyWest. I want to have a future dependant on me and not the contract to xyz airlines that painted their name on my plane.

I think the movement at SkyWest will come from the top. As the majors have retirements they will start to suck the top off the regionals. That's when I'll upgrade.....or maybe move on to a major.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:18 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by duvie
We expanded at a rate that I doubt we'll see again. The SkyWest seniority list almost doubled in two years, which is why we had such a quick upgrade. Now, to make jet captain, junior folks and new hires would have to see upwards of 2000 pilots hired behind them, a feat that even in (consistent) good times would take at least four years. The reason Eagle has such a long upgrade is because of the size of their pilot group and substantial portion of lifers. I reckon we're in exactly the same boat now so I don't think a minimum 5+ year upgrade in the jet will be unusual. Not pessimistic, just looking at the numbers.
Well put duvie. As I look at the projected senority and retirements pages on SAPA's website it is clear that times have changed. The Captains I fly with are typically young and very smart that make sound decisions. They have seen their peers who have moved on, be furloughed in large numbers. Also, by the time the majors start hiring again beyond recalls, they will be 5-10 yrs into the capt payscale. Will they willing to take the huge paycut to start again at the bottom?? I think the days of large attrition are over.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:54 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Newty
I am aware of the reason I get paid less, but I came to Skywest, even though I knew I was in the Bro and I hoped to not be stuck in the bro on 3rd year pay but I am, Some people took ASA over Skywest soley to avoid the bro and they may have hoped to not be furloughed but they are, life is a crapshoot, you take what you get and do what you can with it or get out. I really hope skywaste hires, SOON, and I really hope alot of them are ASA guys, I hope they all get the bro and I get to have at least a composite line, I don't hope that they all get to keep their ASA seniority and bump me further down.
What I'm saying is that as long as your company keeps you divided and pitting yourselves against each other there is nothing you are ever going to ever be able to do about your gripes. You guys are a house divided when as a family you should be supporting each other and sharing the burden equally rather than having a red headed step child doing all the chores for you. I get why Cinderella's sisters didn't want anything to change. They didn't want to share in doing the dirty work. It doesn't make it right.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:13 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by avi8tor4life
I hope SkyWest doesn't grow. Cause if we are growing that means fewer jobs at the legacy airlines. SkyWest is a good place to be but I for one don't want my career to be complete at SkyWest. I want to have a future dependant on me and not the contract to xyz airlines that painted their name on my plane.

I think the movement at SkyWest will come from the top. As the majors have retirements they will start to suck the top off the regionals. That's when I'll upgrade.....or maybe move on to a major.
I think most of the movement will come from the pilots with seniority numbers in the 800-1800 range. I'm right around 500 on the list after nearly 10 years. Started at a number right around 1000. Ten years to move half way up the list, the last 6 just to move the from 700 down to 500. The senior guys just aren't leaving. I guess that includes me, I won't unless it's a really good move.

All of this talk about movement doesn't mean much anyway. There probably won't be any for at least 2-3 more years.

Most of the FO's I fly with have 4-5 years with the company, with no upgrade in sight. I've also flown with reserves, now on their third year, that have never held a line at the company. For guys at the bottom of the list, upgrade is a long way off. We've became another American Eagle.
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