goaround2000

Like most things in aviation...it depends! For instance, there are ways to maximize the provisions in the contract to maximize income. That's how many of us make our extra money. If you base it strictly on hours flown, and per diem, you will get a much lower number.

For instance, I made about $48K (f/o at XJT 5 yr pay) not including per diem, yet I only flew about 600 hours total. How did it happen? Well there was a lot of dead head time in there which is paid at 100% per our contract. There was also a few times when I was fully paid protected for one trip that suffered discontinuity due to weather say in EWR and was given another assignment which was paid at time and half during those days.

Ultimately, I get about 14 days off a month, I could have more time off, but I trade a lot for the purpose of maximizing my income. Throw a couple of months of vacation in there where I don't do much, and it's not a bad gig.

goaround

glyde

Deadheading is being at work, they want to take my time they need to pay me ... We don't work for free. We all need to be paid duty time to make this a decent career again.

Stringer

I wasn't suggesting we should do it for free at all. My 'they wonder why they are making a loss' comment was pointing to the incapability of scheduling!

In my opinion a DH is just a tiring as working the flight, and the seat is smaller!! It should be full pay and not 3/4 as my previous airline paid.

Duty time pay would be ideal, of course, but it's a long way off.

dojetdriver

True, but as you mentioned in the other thread, TAFB from base can be a factor as well.

For the EWR/CLE guys doing 4 days with 6 am shows and 2100 releases on trips that pay 20 hours, well................

Even if you only block 16-17 hours and get paid 20, but had to spend 80+ hours TAFB to do it doesn't exactly reek of a good contract.

Senior Skipper

Ok, so let me see if I have this right. The hourly rate posted is actually per "credit" and not per flight hour. One flight hour is one credit, but other things (like deadheading) give you credits as well. Is this right?

If my understanding is correct, is it normal for a pilot to get significantly more credits than flight hours in a given month or year?

dojetdriver

Well, that's pretty much it. But it can depend on the contract/workrules in regard to deadhead, but you've pretty much got it. Some airlines only pay 50 or 75% credit for a DH.

Say you have a 4 day trip that is worth 20 hours of credit, but has a 2 hour DH in it. So the flight time you are scheduled to fly is 18 hours. Due to underblocking and/or a cancelation etc, you only fly say 15 hours. You STILL get 20 hours credit for the trip. Again, this is assuming the contract has "block or better" as well as 100% DH pay language.

Some companies also have certain pay provisions if you are junior manned, such as 150-200% pay credit. Also, a "duty rig" for things such as CDO/stand ups/highspeeds/naps.

My former employer had a provision that every CREDIT hour above 98 was paid at double time, if you chose to work it. The other alternative was to have ALL your flying dropped for the rest of the month that occurs after the 98 hour credit point.

Another example, from another thread, here are my totals for a few years at my previous job;

2001 1390 credit hours, 754 in the logbook
2002 1360 credit, 684 in the book
2003 1168 cedit, 599 in the book
2004 1079 credit 524 in the book
2005 260 credit, ZERO flown, under that CBA.

To answer the question, yes.

Senior Skipper

Thanks. Good to know that the 2nd yr FO's at ExpressJet make more than 34k.

On a tangent, what's "junior manning"? I've seen the term used all the time, but am not too sure what exactly it means.

dojetdriver

If you were to talk to some reserve pilots, they may have not broke that number by much

That's when the company is out of pilots. No reserve pilots, nobody willing to pick up an open trip, segment, etc. The line holder who thought he was going to be done for the day and was going home just got a surprise, he's getting to work more. Whether it's an additional turn(s), or into another overnight on a day off.

Again, this is a contractual language thing. My previous employer had NO junior manning what so ever. The ONLY way to have a day off taken was due to weather/mechanical, etc. Not due to staffing issues.

Senior Skipper

I'm guessing the answer will be "it depends", but once you've completed your scheduled legs for the day, or at the end of a trip, are you obliged to accept a junior man flight, or can you simple say no?

mmaviator

A lot of pilots turn off their phones or don't answer any calls from scheduling on their day off but you can get 'tagged' when you arrive at you base. In other words, you don't have to unless tagged.