nwa757

Administrator Babbit.... during his confirmation hearing Babbitt stated:
"My number one priority is to focus on safety. This is a business where one mistake is one too many."


IT LOOKS LIKE LOBBYING WORKS, EVEN ON A BROTHERHOOD ALPA PILOT.

FAA chief reluctant to raise minimum pilot hours


WASHINGTON — Federal Aviation Administrator Randy Babbitt expressed reluctance Thursday to increase the number of flight hours required to be an airline co-pilot, a key safety recommendation arising from an airline crash in upstate New York last February.

Members of Congress and families of the 50 people killed in the crash of Continental Express Flight 3407 near Buffalo have urged the FAA to require that all airline pilots have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flying experience.

Only captains are now required to have that many hours of experience; first officers can have as few as 250 hours.

Babbitt told a Senate panel he thinks it’s more important to address gaps in the type of training required of all pilots than to select a set number of hours in the cockpit as the threshold for piloting an airliner. [THIS IS BECAUSE AIRLINE MANAGEMENT LOBBIED ENOUGH TO MAKE HIM CHANGE HIS VIEW.]

“Raising the quantity of hours without raising the quality and nature of the time … may not ensure the improved proficiency we all want,” Babbitt said at a hearing of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee’s aviation subcommittee.

Babbitt also acknowledged the agency’s schedule for proposing a new regulation dealing with pilot fatigue has slipped. He had previously said he hoped to publicly propose a new fatigue rule by the end of this year. He said Thursday he now expects to propose the rule by this spring, and make it final by the end of 2010. [WHY THE DELAY?]

The National Transportation Safety Board has been urging FAA for 19 years to update regulations related to pilot fatigue.

FAA is also currently working on new regulations to address pilot training and experience.

Many captains and first officers at major airlines have far more than 1,500 hours flight experience. However, major airlines now farm out [outsource] much of the short haul flying between cities only a few hundred miles apart to smaller, regional airlines. Those airlines can offer cheaper fares in part by hiring less experienced pilots and paying them lower salaries.

Flight 3407 was operated for Continental Airlines by Colgan Air Inc. of Manassas, Va. The flight’s first officer, Rebecca Shaw, had a salary of about $16,000 in 2008 and lived with her parents near Seattle. She spent all night commuting across the country in order to reach Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey so that she could make the flight to Buffalo.

A cockpit voice recorder transcript indicates she was feeling ill, but was reluctant to tell Colgan she wasn’t well enough to make the flight to Buffalo because she’d have to pay for a hotel room. [BRAVO, CHUCK COLGAN, YOU RUN QUITE A SHARP COMPANY].

Some members of Congress and pilot unions have said they hope a requirement that all airline and cargo pilots have an Air Transport Certificate — which mandates a minimum of 1,500 flight hours — would force regional airlines to hire more experienced pilots and indirectly raise salaries.

The House has passed a bill requiring all airline pilots have the certificates. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., has also introduced a bill with a similar requirement.

“Administrator Babbitt was right when he said that we need better training, but very wrong when he says that we don’t need more training. Because we put our lives in their hands, we must ensure that pilots have both, and the (air transport certificate) legislation will do just that,” Schumer said.

The airline industry opposes requiring all commercial pilots have the certificates.

“There is no correlation between pilot pay and safety,” said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association.

Several of the nearly two dozen friends and family members of those killed in the Flight 3407 crash who attended the Senate hearing said they were severely disappointed by Babbitt’s position.

“After listening to the rhetoric from the (transportation department) all summer that this administration was going to put the passenger first, and that cost would not be allowed to come in the way of safety, how can you not be devastated by this when you think of the price we have all paid?” said Scott Mauer of Moore, S.C., whose daughter, Lorin, was killed in the crash.

On the Net:

Federal Aviation Administration FAA: Home

Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee commerce.senate.gov/public/

TPROP4ever

Why dont we all stop being shortsighted about thinking 1500 hrs is a magic bullet to get pay rates raised, and start paying attention to what was really said in the article. He wants to make sure the Quality of training is there along with the quantity, not just arbitrary numbers, I for one think this is good that he is standing ground on this issue, 1500 hrs before hire would not have prevented 3407. Period, better training oversight might have.

Are we not as guilty as the lobbies when this is a unions real reason for wanting 3371 to go through???
I am all for pay to rise, but it needs to be for the right reasons, not because of a knee jerk reaction that will do nothing to increase safety...He took this stand simply saying that we can not sacrifice quality of training simply because of a rise in quantity....

As usual I see pilots jumping to knee jerk conclusions without looking fully in depth...JMO

seafeye

So forget that a pilot has to commute cross country for a flight because she can't afford a place to live in New York. At a time where there are 6000 airline pilots out of a job, why does colgan hire low time pilots?
Because nobody with experience is going to work for $18k.
How can there not be any correlation between pay and safety?
If the airlines wanted safe experienced pilots then they have thousands to choose from. But they decided to exchange safety for people that will accept the low pay.

The Duke

I agree. I think most of the provisions are good but I am left scratching my head on the 1500 hour requirement. This legislation was inspired by Colgan 3407 and both pilots had well over 1500 hours at time of crash.

There are no statistics to back up the 1500 hour requirement. FWIW, best FO I ever flew with had well south of 1500 hours when he started out on the Dash 8 here @ Mesa. A better system can be implemented than just setting the bar at an arbitrary value such as 1500 hours. We owe it to this younger generation of pilots who are fighting and clawing to get into this industry.

FlyJSH

At the time she was hired, most if not all regionals had lowered the mins to ridicules levels.

You are right, $18k does not attract the the same Chuck Yeagers that $21k does

FlyJSH

The requirement would be an ATP not 1500 hours. If you watched the hearings, Mr. Babbitt stated that training required for an ATP may be too low as well. He implied that he would like to see the requirements for an ATP be increased.

And we dont owe the younger (or older) generation anything. We DO owe our passengers, freight, and those on the ground the assurance that we are doing everything possible to insure a safe flight. If that means some folks who really wanna be a pilet doesn't get to play, then so be it.

On Autopilot

The way I see it,you can have hours to fly the space shuttle, bur if you do the same thing Captain Renslow did by trying to get out of a stall by increasing the stall, turning off the stick shacker, etc people will still die. It wasn't the hours that killed those people, it was his actions /training.

Yea, I'm all for a mandatory compensation level like they have in Europe. The public wants First Class levels of service, like Lobster etc. but they want to pay Wal Mart prices for it. Screw em!!! If your cheap butt can't afford the price of the ticket, go Greyhound!!!!!

captfred

Actually Greyhound pays more than Colgan.

dashtrash300

Amen!!!!!!!

heading180

I agree with you, however I don't think it will change anything. Prime example, go look at the Compass threads. There are several posts in there where pilots having over 5000 hours are applying there. Granted they pay a little better than Colgan, but not much in the grand scheme of it all.

Nothing is going to change until we all get on board together and demand the respect, pay, and classiness that this profession should be.