EMB-120 SOPs
12-03-2009, 09:17 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,814
Fellas. An SOP is 'aint the bible...besides the SSI it is mostly fluff replacing a Pilot's decision-making ability with "you shalls," and "you musts." Just about anyone can make up some mindless babble like that, so chillax 
12-03-2009, 11:03 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
You all act like Osama Bin Laden himself just asked how to fly an airplane. Guys, this is just a newbie, trying to figure things out, in the wrong way. Cut him some slack. Plus, we're talking about an EMB-120 here, not a 777. Not exactly a terrorist target! Take off the tin foil hats!!!
Kizzle, as a few have stated, the best way to go about this is to contact Embraer to get checklists and operational manuals from them, then adapt those to your use. I'm assuming you're part 91. Don't expect anything useful from message boards. I have lots of time in Brakillyas, but it was so long ago I'm probably not of much help. G' luck.
Kizzle, as a few have stated, the best way to go about this is to contact Embraer to get checklists and operational manuals from them, then adapt those to your use. I'm assuming you're part 91. Don't expect anything useful from message boards. I have lots of time in Brakillyas, but it was so long ago I'm probably not of much help. G' luck.
12-03-2009, 11:23 AM
#13
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Emb
Hi John,
Thanks for the response. Yes we're part 91 and we have already gone through the channels to get the various material we needed to develop our SOPs. As it stands we do have a set of SOPs that we are happy with. My main interest at this point is techniques used by people in the trenches to save fuel, maximize engine and prop life. Being that ASA and skywest probably have the most experience operating the aircraft i was figuring that i'd be able to get some ideas from some of the guys on what worked and what didn't. E.g. what kinda T6 settings were being used during cruise and climbs. What Np settings seemed to work best 100% to cruise, 100% to 12k then 90%, etc.. I no way was i asking for any material to be sent to me, etc.
Thanks for the response. Yes we're part 91 and we have already gone through the channels to get the various material we needed to develop our SOPs. As it stands we do have a set of SOPs that we are happy with. My main interest at this point is techniques used by people in the trenches to save fuel, maximize engine and prop life. Being that ASA and skywest probably have the most experience operating the aircraft i was figuring that i'd be able to get some ideas from some of the guys on what worked and what didn't. E.g. what kinda T6 settings were being used during cruise and climbs. What Np settings seemed to work best 100% to cruise, 100% to 12k then 90%, etc.. I no way was i asking for any material to be sent to me, etc.
You all act like Osama Bin Laden himself just asked how to fly an airplane. Guys, this is just a newbie, trying to figure things out, in the wrong way. Cut him some slack. Plus, we're talking about an EMB-120 here, not a 777. Not exactly a terrorist target! Take off the tin foil hats!!!
Kizzle, as a few have stated, the best way to go about this is to contact Embraer to get checklists and operational manuals from them, then adapt those to your use. I'm assuming you're part 91. Don't expect anything useful from message boards. I have lots of time in Brakillyas, but it was so long ago I'm probably not of much help. G' luck.
Kizzle, as a few have stated, the best way to go about this is to contact Embraer to get checklists and operational manuals from them, then adapt those to your use. I'm assuming you're part 91. Don't expect anything useful from message boards. I have lots of time in Brakillyas, but it was so long ago I'm probably not of much help. G' luck.
12-03-2009, 12:36 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Hi John,
Thanks for the response. Yes we're part 91 and we have already gone through the channels to get the various material we needed to develop our SOPs. As it stands we do have a set of SOPs that we are happy with. My main interest at this point is techniques used by people in the trenches to save fuel, maximize engine and prop life. Being that ASA and skywest probably have the most experience operating the aircraft i was figuring that i'd be able to get some ideas from some of the guys on what worked and what didn't. E.g. what kinda T6 settings were being used during cruise and climbs. What Np settings seemed to work best 100% to cruise, 100% to 12k then 90%, etc.. I no way was i asking for any material to be sent to me, etc.
Thanks for the response. Yes we're part 91 and we have already gone through the channels to get the various material we needed to develop our SOPs. As it stands we do have a set of SOPs that we are happy with. My main interest at this point is techniques used by people in the trenches to save fuel, maximize engine and prop life. Being that ASA and skywest probably have the most experience operating the aircraft i was figuring that i'd be able to get some ideas from some of the guys on what worked and what didn't. E.g. what kinda T6 settings were being used during cruise and climbs. What Np settings seemed to work best 100% to cruise, 100% to 12k then 90%, etc.. I no way was i asking for any material to be sent to me, etc.
12-03-2009, 01:20 PM
#15
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Thank you for the reply JetLock16. I'm not sure what PM stands for, sorry i'm new here. Is there a way to communicate privately in this forum?
My previous post pretty much covers what areas i'm interested in. I certainly do appreciate any recommendations you can provide.
Seasons Greetings and thanks again!
Kiz
My previous post pretty much covers what areas i'm interested in. I certainly do appreciate any recommendations you can provide.
Seasons Greetings and thanks again!
Kiz
12-03-2009, 01:44 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
PM means private message. This website has lots of asinine controls, and one of them is that you can't send/receive pm's until you have a certain status.
T6: I used to work at Great Lakes, and we routinely ran the engines to 800. This was with "B" model engines. (310kt TAS normal). At ASA, the limit was 780 I believe, 720 for cruise. This with "A" engines (270kt TAS normal).
Np: At both places, we used 100% Np for climb, and 86% Np for cruise. We did have the option to go to 90% Np in climb, I'm thinking it was at FL180, but don't quote me. FYI, Continental Express used minimum Np (76%?) for cruise and had success with it, but most 120 operators use 86%.
Climb was generally 84% Tq if I remember correctly.
Speaking of the prop, memorize the immediate action items for a prop overspeed condition. I'm just saying...
I recall a good rule of thumb being to take twice the desired airspeed, and dropping the last digit. For example, if 200kts desired, required 40% Tq.
More may come to me. Feel free to ask.
T6: I used to work at Great Lakes, and we routinely ran the engines to 800. This was with "B" model engines. (310kt TAS normal). At ASA, the limit was 780 I believe, 720 for cruise. This with "A" engines (270kt TAS normal).
Np: At both places, we used 100% Np for climb, and 86% Np for cruise. We did have the option to go to 90% Np in climb, I'm thinking it was at FL180, but don't quote me. FYI, Continental Express used minimum Np (76%?) for cruise and had success with it, but most 120 operators use 86%.
Climb was generally 84% Tq if I remember correctly.
Speaking of the prop, memorize the immediate action items for a prop overspeed condition. I'm just saying...
I recall a good rule of thumb being to take twice the desired airspeed, and dropping the last digit. For example, if 200kts desired, required 40% Tq.
More may come to me. Feel free to ask.
12-03-2009, 02:06 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Once you can PM I'll add more but here's some numbers:
T6 Limits:
SkyWest climb limit ........................................... 720°C (Maximizes Eng life etc)
(Limit the higher of the T6's to 720 and then Match the other Tq)
MAX Cruise torque:
NP at 100% .................................................. .......... 72%
NP at 90% .................................................. ............ 80%
NP at 85% .................................................. ............ 84%
NP at 80% .................................................. ............ 84%
Min. NH for ops of deice equip .................................... 80%
Note: We cruise at 85% Np and have flip cards that take ALT and Temp into account to give us a cruise setting that’s 2/3’s performance and 1/3 economy.
NP Limits:
Max speed for setting NP to 100% ......................... 200 KIAS (Don’t use props as speed brakes!!!)
Min NP in icing conditions ............................................ 85%
Climb at 100% Tq and 720°C. At 12K reduce Np to 90% while observing the 720°C climb limitation. This reduces cabin noise. If needed the 720 limitation can be exceeded as need by the pilots.
Fuel conservation descent is roughly at 190 - 210 KIAS with a 2K FPM descent rate, Np at 80% and Tq around 30% or less.
T6 Limits:
SkyWest climb limit ........................................... 720°C (Maximizes Eng life etc)
(Limit the higher of the T6's to 720 and then Match the other Tq)
MAX Cruise torque:
NP at 100% .................................................. .......... 72%
NP at 90% .................................................. ............ 80%
NP at 85% .................................................. ............ 84%
NP at 80% .................................................. ............ 84%
Min. NH for ops of deice equip .................................... 80%
Note: We cruise at 85% Np and have flip cards that take ALT and Temp into account to give us a cruise setting that’s 2/3’s performance and 1/3 economy.
NP Limits:
Max speed for setting NP to 100% ......................... 200 KIAS (Don’t use props as speed brakes!!!)
Min NP in icing conditions ............................................ 85%
Climb at 100% Tq and 720°C. At 12K reduce Np to 90% while observing the 720°C climb limitation. This reduces cabin noise. If needed the 720 limitation can be exceeded as need by the pilots.
Fuel conservation descent is roughly at 190 - 210 KIAS with a 2K FPM descent rate, Np at 80% and Tq around 30% or less.
12-03-2009, 02:30 PM
#18
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
HI guys,
Thank you for the information guys. I'm making notes. How about the best cruise altitudes to use? I gather you guys don't generally go above FL250? The engines are the straight 118s and the craft was converted from a RT to an ER. So i'm thinking going above 250 would be a stretch for us using the straight 118s.
I heard flaps can create maintenance issues. Any recommendations re. flap usage?
Regards
Kiz
How many more messages do i have to go before i can PM?
Thank you for the information guys. I'm making notes. How about the best cruise altitudes to use? I gather you guys don't generally go above FL250? The engines are the straight 118s and the craft was converted from a RT to an ER. So i'm thinking going above 250 would be a stretch for us using the straight 118s.
I heard flaps can create maintenance issues. Any recommendations re. flap usage?
Regards
Kiz
How many more messages do i have to go before i can PM?
Once you can PM I'll add more but here's some numbers:
T6 Limits:
SkyWest climb limit ........................................... 720°C (Maximizes Eng life etc)
(Limit the higher of the T6's to 720 and then Match the other Tq)
MAX Cruise torque:
NP at 100% .................................................. .......... 72%
NP at 90% .................................................. ............ 80%
NP at 85% .................................................. ............ 84%
NP at 80% .................................................. ............ 84%
Min. NH for ops of deice equip .................................... 80%
Note: We cruise at 85% Np and have flip cards that take ALT and Temp into account to give us a cruise setting that’s 2/3’s performance and 1/3 economy.
NP Limits:
Max speed for setting NP to 100% ......................... 200 KIAS (Don’t use props as speed brakes!!!)
Min NP in icing conditions ............................................ 85%
Climb at 100% Tq and 720°C. At 12K reduce Np to 90% while observing the 720°C climb limitation. This reduces cabin noise. If needed the 720 limitation can be exceeded as need by the pilots.
Fuel conservation descent is roughly at 190 - 210 KIAS with a 2K FPM descent rate, Np at 80% and Tq around 30% or less.
T6 Limits:
SkyWest climb limit ........................................... 720°C (Maximizes Eng life etc)
(Limit the higher of the T6's to 720 and then Match the other Tq)
MAX Cruise torque:
NP at 100% .................................................. .......... 72%
NP at 90% .................................................. ............ 80%
NP at 85% .................................................. ............ 84%
NP at 80% .................................................. ............ 84%
Min. NH for ops of deice equip .................................... 80%
Note: We cruise at 85% Np and have flip cards that take ALT and Temp into account to give us a cruise setting that’s 2/3’s performance and 1/3 economy.
NP Limits:
Max speed for setting NP to 100% ......................... 200 KIAS (Don’t use props as speed brakes!!!)
Min NP in icing conditions ............................................ 85%
Climb at 100% Tq and 720°C. At 12K reduce Np to 90% while observing the 720°C climb limitation. This reduces cabin noise. If needed the 720 limitation can be exceeded as need by the pilots.
Fuel conservation descent is roughly at 190 - 210 KIAS with a 2K FPM descent rate, Np at 80% and Tq around 30% or less.
12-03-2009, 02:42 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
HI guys,
Thank you for the information guys. I'm making notes. How about the best cruise altitudes to use? I gather you guys don't generally go above FL250? The engines are the straight 118s and the craft was converted from a RT to an ER. So i'm thinking going above 250 would be a stretch for us using the straight 118s.
I heard flaps can create maintenance issues. Any recommendations re. flap usage?
Regards
Kiz
How many more messages do i have to go before i can PM?
Thank you for the information guys. I'm making notes. How about the best cruise altitudes to use? I gather you guys don't generally go above FL250? The engines are the straight 118s and the craft was converted from a RT to an ER. So i'm thinking going above 250 would be a stretch for us using the straight 118s.
I heard flaps can create maintenance issues. Any recommendations re. flap usage?
Regards
Kiz
How many more messages do i have to go before i can PM?
I'm headed to work but we normally cruise between 210 and 260 with some ops up to 280. We operate E120ER's with 118B's. Straight 118's are reliable but are nowhere near as efficient as the B’s.
12-03-2009, 03:01 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Okay i'll do that. I should be well on my way to having PM capability by now.
Just start posting 1, 2, 3 and so until you see your ability to PM pop up. Not sure but I think it's around 10ish. Then PM me your Q's and I'll gladly put together a nice recommendations WB for you.
I'm headed to work but we normally cruise between 210 and 260 with some ops up to 280. We operate E120ER's with 118B's. Straight 118's are reliable but are nowhere near as efficient as the B’s.
I'm headed to work but we normally cruise between 210 and 260 with some ops up to 280. We operate E120ER's with 118B's. Straight 118's are reliable but are nowhere near as efficient as the B’s.
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