WSJ Article on "Commuter" Safety
12-01-2009, 12:15 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Retired
Posts: 651
I don't understand why everyone is still so caught up on the hours thing. The days of the 250-300 hour new hire are over, and will likely never be seen again. Not only has congress passed legislation mandating higher time pilots, but airlines now have a healthy pool of experienced people to choose from. Even if we ran into another of those so called "pilot shortages" legally the airlines couldn't pull directly from the low time pilot factory pool again. So why is the media, and people on this board still whining and complaining about it. Would it make you happy if the FAA and airlines went through all the airline records and purged everyone hired with less than 1000-1500 hours? There have been small waves of low time pilots being hired in the past (directly into mainlines no less) and I don't see planes falling out of the sky left and right.
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
But for those of us in the industry the real problem remains. And that is operators who hired low time pilots, upgraded them quickly and continue to operate with a culture that lacks experience and leadership. Low time new hires were just one part of that picture, and not even a very important part.
Yes, both members of the Colgan crew had over 1500 hours. But their times were still low, especially in the case of a Captain in charge of a large and complex aircraft. And while I don’t know what the culture is/was a Colgan, it certainly does not sound like there is/was a cadre of seasoned, high time Captains serving as role models.
So even if the days of low time new hires are over, there remains the problem of minimally experienced Captains working in operations that lack leadership and experience at the organizational level.
12-01-2009, 12:16 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 717
Posts: 96
I don't understand why everyone is still so caught up on the hours thing. The days of the 250-300 hour new hire are over, and will likely never be seen again. Not only has congress passed legislation mandating higher time pilots, but airlines now have a healthy pool of experienced people to choose from. Even if we ran into another of those so called "pilot shortages" legally the airlines couldn't pull directly from the low time pilot factory pool again. So why is the media, and people on this board still whining and complaining about it. Would it make you happy if the FAA and airlines went through all the airline records and purged everyone hired with less than 1000-1500 hours? There have been small waves of low time pilots being hired in the past (directly into mainlines no less) and I don't see planes falling out of the sky left and right.
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
You can train a monkey to do most anything.................except think.
12-01-2009, 12:33 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: N/A
Posts: 637
12-01-2009, 01:12 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
I don't understand why everyone is still so caught up on the hours thing. The days of the 250-300 hour new hire are over, and will likely never be seen again. Not only has congress passed legislation mandating higher time pilots, but airlines now have a healthy pool of experienced people to choose from. Even if we ran into another of those so called "pilot shortages" legally the airlines couldn't pull directly from the low time pilot factory pool again. So why is the media, and people on this board still whining and complaining about it. Would it make you happy if the FAA and airlines went through all the airline records and purged everyone hired with less than 1000-1500 hours? There have been small waves of low time pilots being hired in the past (directly into mainlines no less) and I don't see planes falling out of the sky left and right.
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
Did any pilot on any of those 3 recent pilot error regional accidents the media always cites have less than 1500 hours? No.
The battle of the hour requirement regs is over, now can't we focus on more important things like duty/rest regs, pay, and most importantly training?
12-01-2009, 01:31 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: PIC Challenger 605
Posts: 454
You are right. They did not. But at least the captain of the most reason accident was hired with less than 1500. In fact, i believe it was around 450 total.
12-01-2009, 02:09 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: The Beginnings
Posts: 1,317
"Some of the most difficult routes and grueling schedules are flown by pilots with the least experience and training."
That's really all you need to know about this article. I think that statement is 100% accurate.
What can Congress do? Well, as a pilot, I'd say be careful what you wish for . . .
12-01-2009, 02:38 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Pilot sleeping.
Posts: 615
I've been an FO for almost a paltry 3 years. Every winter that goes by grants me invaluable first time experiences. They leave me wondering how captains that upgraded quickly deal with them. I feel lucky that I've been gaining this experience. Even more lucky that many of the captains I fly with have been in the left seat for decades. Literally.
12-01-2009, 03:16 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
Experience alone can not determine quality of airmanship. So many of the new commuter Captains have an entitlement attitude and I believe this is a great preditor of a future accident.
12-01-2009, 03:33 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: B737 F/O
Posts: 425
I felt it was the senior CA's who truly believed that the 'rules didn't apply to them', and that their 'decades of experience' were a substitute for alertness, situational awareness, and system knowledge.
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