SKW guys/gals - a question
10-27-2009, 09:22 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Not sure folks in general at SkyWest would agree with you now, or at least the last 4 votes for a union suggest otherwise. This, in my opinion, was one of the many faults of the last union drive.
As a guy who was fired from SkyWest quite unceremoniously last summer, pretty much black listing me from descent part 121 hiring for the rest of my life, I gotta say that I liked working for SkW.
And I didn't think ALPA was the answer then, nor do I now. I honestly wish somebody would get a SkyWest Pilot's Union going, and get off the "but we're too tiny" mentality.
Combining lists with ASA could certainly pan out to be awesome in turns of leverage to SkW, Inc, but the reality is, there will be more contentious issues than harmony. What percentage of list integrations went smoothly? Of those, how many of those integrations were voluntary? The odds aren't good.
Then, the even bigger question; how many at ASA would want to give up ALPA to jump to an upstart, unknown union. The point is, forming a union contingent on the idea of ASA, or any future airline SkW will buy (and there will be more XJT, Scenic Air, Sun Aire, and ASA type purchases in the future) is a bad plan.
Form a union, and make it the best damn union in the business. Bar none. Then, if ASA wants to join up, lay the cards out on the table, and let them vote.
So, I think an in-house union is great, but a combined list / union with ASA might even keep Chip up at night (hey, I like and respect him... it's just business).
As a guy who was fired from SkyWest quite unceremoniously last summer, pretty much black listing me from descent part 121 hiring for the rest of my life, I gotta say that I liked working for SkW.
And I didn't think ALPA was the answer then, nor do I now. I honestly wish somebody would get a SkyWest Pilot's Union going, and get off the "but we're too tiny" mentality.
Combining lists with ASA could certainly pan out to be awesome in turns of leverage to SkW, Inc, but the reality is, there will be more contentious issues than harmony. What percentage of list integrations went smoothly? Of those, how many of those integrations were voluntary? The odds aren't good.
Then, the even bigger question; how many at ASA would want to give up ALPA to jump to an upstart, unknown union. The point is, forming a union contingent on the idea of ASA, or any future airline SkW will buy (and there will be more XJT, Scenic Air, Sun Aire, and ASA type purchases in the future) is a bad plan.
Form a union, and make it the best damn union in the business. Bar none. Then, if ASA wants to join up, lay the cards out on the table, and let them vote.
So, I think an in-house union is great, but a combined list / union with ASA might even keep Chip up at night (hey, I like and respect him... it's just business).
Hey Tony, did you have a girlfriend who was an F/A that worked for SkW?
10-27-2009, 10:50 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
I can't think of too many things we've lost this year but of the few I can think of, none of them would have been prevented by a union. I don't think having a union would stop SKW from changing the insurance plans they offer on a year to year basis. The change in United's NonRev policies were inflicted on all UAX carriers and we are actually paying less than the other UAX feeders.
To me, the bottomline is that SkyWest is a better regional to work for than almost any other company out there. The company and its dynamic was built on a non-union environment so to presume that we could vote in a union tomorrow and everything would continue status quo is dubious at best.
I wouldn't presume to tell a guy what to vote for at his airline, so why does everybody try and force the union propaganda down our throat? If things really were disintegrating like people would say, another union drive would be on the way, but most of us are pretty happy with what we have going on right now. Thanks for your concern, honestly, but the numbers from the last few votes speak for themselves.
To me, the bottomline is that SkyWest is a better regional to work for than almost any other company out there. The company and its dynamic was built on a non-union environment so to presume that we could vote in a union tomorrow and everything would continue status quo is dubious at best.
I wouldn't presume to tell a guy what to vote for at his airline, so why does everybody try and force the union propaganda down our throat? If things really were disintegrating like people would say, another union drive would be on the way, but most of us are pretty happy with what we have going on right now. Thanks for your concern, honestly, but the numbers from the last few votes speak for themselves.
10-28-2009, 06:17 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
Not sure folks in general at SkyWest would agree with you now, or at least the last 4 votes for a union suggest otherwise. This, in my opinion, was one of the many faults of the last union drive.
As a guy who was fired from SkyWest quite unceremoniously last summer, pretty much black listing me from descent part 121 hiring for the rest of my life, I gotta say that I liked working for SkW.
And I didn't think ALPA was the answer then, nor do I now. I honestly wish somebody would get a SkyWest Pilot's Union going, and get off the "but we're too tiny" mentality.
Combining lists with ASA could certainly pan out to be awesome in turns of leverage to SkW, Inc, but the reality is, there will be more contentious issues than harmony. What percentage of list integrations went smoothly? Of those, how many of those integrations were voluntary? The odds aren't good.
Then, the even bigger question; how many at ASA would want to give up ALPA to jump to an upstart, unknown union. The point is, forming a union contingent on the idea of ASA, or any future airline SkW will buy (and there will be more XJT, Scenic Air, Sun Aire, and ASA type purchases in the future) is a bad plan.
Form a union, and make it the best damn union in the business. Bar none. Then, if ASA wants to join up, lay the cards out on the table, and let them vote.
So, I think an in-house union is great, but a combined list / union with ASA might even keep Chip up at night (hey, I like and respect him... it's just business).
As a guy who was fired from SkyWest quite unceremoniously last summer, pretty much black listing me from descent part 121 hiring for the rest of my life, I gotta say that I liked working for SkW.
And I didn't think ALPA was the answer then, nor do I now. I honestly wish somebody would get a SkyWest Pilot's Union going, and get off the "but we're too tiny" mentality.
Combining lists with ASA could certainly pan out to be awesome in turns of leverage to SkW, Inc, but the reality is, there will be more contentious issues than harmony. What percentage of list integrations went smoothly? Of those, how many of those integrations were voluntary? The odds aren't good.
Then, the even bigger question; how many at ASA would want to give up ALPA to jump to an upstart, unknown union. The point is, forming a union contingent on the idea of ASA, or any future airline SkW will buy (and there will be more XJT, Scenic Air, Sun Aire, and ASA type purchases in the future) is a bad plan.
Form a union, and make it the best damn union in the business. Bar none. Then, if ASA wants to join up, lay the cards out on the table, and let them vote.
So, I think an in-house union is great, but a combined list / union with ASA might even keep Chip up at night (hey, I like and respect him... it's just business).
I think your opinion carries a lot more weight than most of ours but when i look at what XJT's alpa union goes through in cash, negotiations, having people trained to do jobs (accident response teams, etc), and providing the benefits of excellent medical advisors and legal representation.... there is no way that our pilot group alone could pay for the benefits we receive. We are piggybacking off of the larger, major carriers in alpa. A standalone union might give you some of the benefits of a larger more stable union but i dont think they could afford to do anything really well.
This is just my opinion and i could very well be wrong but i see ALPA as a huge benefit at my current company. Having a medical problem was a non-event and i was getting advice from a doctor in denver within two hours of calling to ask a question. Our alpa hotel committee keeps trying to negotiate better deals for nicer rooms and as a result we have some of the best hotels of any regional. The list is pretty long but the benefits of having a union are definitely there.
10-28-2009, 06:52 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DHC-8 CA Furloughed
Posts: 305
It is not difficult to find pilots with a laundry list of gripes about the way they are treated. Many of them choose to blame the union and threaten to quit. That is so much easier than blaming the employer and quitting their job. Union gains in this profession under the RLA are measured in inches. We would be treated much differently if we could legally strike with one month notice to the company.
I am looking at the framed copy of my SKW letter offering me an E120 class date. One of the reasons I chose to work elsewhere was the lack of a union.
The Dash Whisperer
10-28-2009, 07:35 AM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
The majority of people at skywest do NOT want a union. Its been done many times in the past and each time less and less people vote in favor. The last 2 years have shown the people skywest how lucky they are NOT to have one. Why would people vote for one now all of a sudden? I cam to skywest because that criminal organization known as Alpo wasnt' here. If you don't like it LEAVE!
10-28-2009, 08:01 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: CRJ-200 First Officer
Posts: 262
So, a corrupt union leader means that unions and unionism are corrupt as a whole? No one points to Bernie Maddof or other corrupt business leaders and says that corporations or crony capitialism in this country are corrupt through and through. Your buddies who hate their unions should really blame their employers and the RLA for forcing airline unions to work with extremely limited access to their most potent weapon, a strike.
It is not difficult to find pilots with a laundry list of gripes about the way they are treated. Many of them choose to blame the union and threaten to quit. That is so much easier than blaming the employer and quitting their job. Union gains in this profession under the RLA are measured in inches. We would be treated much differently if we could legally strike with one month notice to the company.
I am looking at the framed copy of my SKW letter offering me an E120 class date. One of the reasons I chose to work elsewhere was the lack of a union.
The Dash Whisperer
It is not difficult to find pilots with a laundry list of gripes about the way they are treated. Many of them choose to blame the union and threaten to quit. That is so much easier than blaming the employer and quitting their job. Union gains in this profession under the RLA are measured in inches. We would be treated much differently if we could legally strike with one month notice to the company.
I am looking at the framed copy of my SKW letter offering me an E120 class date. One of the reasons I chose to work elsewhere was the lack of a union.
The Dash Whisperer
Skywest has far better pay, work rules, and QOL. If my 2% union dues got me that last Mesa TA, I'd be ****ed.
I'm pro-union myself but there is no way I'd ever point out the Mesa MEC as an example of what unions can do for you. I'm sure Skywest pilots look at Mesa as a reason for not having a union.
10-28-2009, 09:23 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 63
Your kidding right??
I can't think of too many things we've lost this year but of the few I can think of, none of them would have been prevented by a union. I don't think having a union would stop SKW from changing the insurance plans they offer on a year to year basis. The change in United's NonRev policies were inflicted on all UAX carriers and we are actually paying less than the other UAX feeders.
To me, the bottomline is that SkyWest is a better regional to work for than almost any other company out there. The company and its dynamic was built on a non-union environment so to presume that we could vote in a union tomorrow and everything would continue status quo is dubious at best.
I wouldn't presume to tell a guy what to vote for at his airline, so why does everybody try and force the union propaganda down our throat? If things really were disintegrating like people would say, another union drive would be on the way, but most of us are pretty happy with what we have going on right now. Thanks for your concern, honestly, but the numbers from the last few votes speak for themselves.
To me, the bottomline is that SkyWest is a better regional to work for than almost any other company out there. The company and its dynamic was built on a non-union environment so to presume that we could vote in a union tomorrow and everything would continue status quo is dubious at best.
I wouldn't presume to tell a guy what to vote for at his airline, so why does everybody try and force the union propaganda down our throat? If things really were disintegrating like people would say, another union drive would be on the way, but most of us are pretty happy with what we have going on right now. Thanks for your concern, honestly, but the numbers from the last few votes speak for themselves.
If you think that the travel benefits with United couldn't have been negotiated into a contract then you’re kidding yourself.
How about the manipulation of the bonus matrix that the company is continuing to toy with?
I'm certain that our cost of living increase could be better than 1% if we had someone negotiating for us.
The proposed changes to health care would have been in a CBA and would be protected. See ASA.
Don Douglas and others would not still be fighting the company, by themselves, to get them to do what is right.
Remember during the union drive how they kept telling us that pay was more than just what you see in your check, it is all those benefits too? Well if you ask me the benefits have taken a beating in the past year.
When I first got to SkyWest I was opposed to the idea of a Union, I still don't love the idea but I can see the path we are heading down without one is definitely worse. I have lost a lot more than 2% with all the reductions that the company is unilaterally imposing.
I respectfully disagree with you that most of us are happy with things, I think that most of us are uninformed and unaware of the things the company is doing. I think that the level of interest raised in the pilot group and the FA group by the proposed changes to the health care plan may just serve as a wake up call.
Last edited by Longboarder29; 10-28-2009 at 09:24 AM. Reason: spelling
10-28-2009, 09:26 AM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 63
Oh and lets not forget the old deal us an ace to get these 700/900's on property then we will figure out a pay rate....oh wait we don't want to have to pay you a lot more and since your already flying them we are just going to give you a block hour override that is a slap in the face.
And the company has more than $750 million in the bank and is still making money but can't seem to figure out how to be competitive without taking it out of our hide.
And the company has more than $750 million in the bank and is still making money but can't seem to figure out how to be competitive without taking it out of our hide.
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