Go Ugly Early

How is ALPA going to stop 401K match from going away when they haven't been able to stop pensions from being underfunded or not at all (TWA) or them being sold to the government? How is ALPA going to stop the payment for non-rev travel?

nigelcobalt

I believe asa has those medical benefits in their contract. Can't just yank it out.

TonyWilliams

Ya, no union contract has ever been gutted. Or violated, and told to "file a grievance". No retirements taken, no unilateral changes, no imposed work rules..................

BoilerUP

Except that Skywest is not in bankruptcy, where (non-government) union contracts are gutted, retirements are taken, unilateral changes made, and work rules imposed.

JDFlyer

THREADJACK - skip this post if you only want to read posts on topic

Tony -

I want to take a brief moment here, on this public forum, and apologize about a recent exchange we had about Skywest and how it does or does not wrongfully treat people.

For some curious reason, it seems recently I have been flying with FO's and talking with Captains in the crew lounges about all the shady B.S. that Skywest pulls from time to time on its pilots and flight attendants. Some events I have heard before, some I have not. Several I have personal knowledge of occurring in the last few weeks.

Over the course of my 5 years at Skywest, I have always tried to have a good attitude and do the best job I can - as I am sure you did the same. I still feel Skywest is a good place to work, however, I absolutely recognize and realize that it is very, very far from perfect. St. George still wants to run this place like the little mom and pop airline it used to be. Just do what mom or pop says, don't think, don't challenge, don't ask. If they like you great, if not watch out.

Even though I don't know you personally, I say this with confidence, good people like you get the "short end" of the stick without due cause or due process many times.

Anyway for what its worth, I felt that I needed to contact you again and publicly apologize. Hope you have a Happy Holiday Season. I will be stuck on lousy 4 day trips over Xmas and New Years. Oh well.

TonyWilliams

I don't believe bankruptcy is the only way to sidestep a union contract in the (non-government) arena. A quick search will find "alter-ego" airlines, initially filled with plenty of non-union pilots working under rules that would violate the contracts from their "ego" affiliates.

As to the government union side, check out the $5 million party the FAA managers are having in ATL. That's after 3 years of a unilaterally imposed contract. No strike, no bankruptcy. Without the current government political leadership, it would still be the same.

Those imposed work rules were only one year after (in 2005) sending home the federally employed flight service station folks, some with days to go before retirement, so they could sell the jobs to non-union "alter ego" employees at Lockheed Martin. Those guys may never get their jobs back.

I'm not saying don't fight the good fight. But don't fall prey to union organizer or supporter rhetoric that implies that you're 100% safe in the union. Remember this:

ANYTHING OF VALUE IN YOUR UNION CONTRACT IS SUBJECT TO SOMEBODY WANTING TO TAKE IT, BY WHAT EVER METHOD, LEGAL, QUASI-LEGAL, OR ILLEGAL.

TonyWilliams

Thank you. If my circumstances can aid SkyWest pilots in getting a union on par with what SAPA tries to do, and what SWAPA does for Southwest, then I'd be very, very happy.

I still think SkyWest is a good company to work for overall, by the way. They take advantage of pilot's who will work for almost nothing, but that's no different than all the rest.

Nevets

As soon as a union is voted in, you go into status quo. So the company is not allowed to change any of its current policies or practices (written or unwritten). They are required to negotiate a contract with the covered employees. ALPA has learned (the hard way) about solid scope, M&A, and fragmentation clauses so this would be priority number one in any new ALPA contract thus eliminating the threat of alter egos.

I tried to explain this status quo concept to dozens of Skywest pilots back during the drive because it seemed to be a major concern for them that once votes are counted and the company realizes their pilots are unionized that their management would start unilaterally making life worse for them. Beside the fact that this would be illegal and that ALPA would file a lawsuit to impose an injunction on Skywest if they attempted that (just like they got an injunction on Skywest to stop its tactics during the organizing drive), if you feel your management would try to do things like this then doesn't speak to the fact that maybe you do need a union with the power of laws behind it to defend you against such actions? I personally, from speaking with a dozen friends who worked there, didn't think that they would do that. I tried to explain to them that just because you are unionized doesn't mean that you have to have an adversarial relationship with your management. I pointed to my pilot group as the best example of that. Hell, my MEC looked after the best interest of Skywest pilots as well when JA tried to buy XJT.

TonyWilliams

What you're saying is all true, but has very little to do with my comments.

If management were to acquiesce to the fact that OO pilots will unionize, now is the time for them to put the screws to the pilots before the "freeze" period of a union drive. Therefore, the status quo would be as low as they wanted to negotiate from (take, now, whatever retirement, medical, vacation, profit sharing, etc).

Since I lived through the last union drive as a SAPA rep, I'm intimately familiar with the freeze concept. We couldn't get anything done.

Nevets

I agree and that is why I also made the point that if management actually did put the screws to the pilots then it says a lot of that management and make the case stronger for unionizing. I'm not sure they would do that mostly because I think they feel it would backfire on them. Or maybe I'm dead wrong since they are making changes that will lower their health insurance costs.