BoilerUP

I'm no cheerleader for RAH...just get tired of the stupidity, revisionist history, and plain ignorance "around these parts" about them. And oh yeah, I worked at AWAC so I know a thing or three about their situation.

Please elaborate on those "number of liabilities"...because I'm having trouble thinking of any that aren't the same as 1. any financing agreement, or 2. any CPA.

goaround2000

That's debatable, but subject to opinion.



Really? Do I need to get into this with you? I always thought you were a pretty educated fellow based on your posts, but I could be wrong. Let's look at one example, I'll keep this simple for you. What would happen if you don't pay your mortgage due a financial crisis, which say for the sake of argument is a 80/10/10 (you didn't want to pay PMS when you closed on the house)? Say, you actually negotiate new terms with your financial institutions holding the 80% note, and one of the 10% notes, but not the other; and say that other is your neighbor looking to expand his land. What do you think that other 10% institution/neighbor would do? Hmmmm!!!! Where have we heard of a similar example in the airline industry? Hmmm, I wonder? But you're right, how can that possibly be a liability.

I can think of at least 3 other possible scenarios that have or could open up any airline to a higher risk of liability and control issues when one of your creditors is also an airline, but hey you're the expert, you worked for one, and adore the other, you tell me.

BoilerUP

Is that really necessary? Does it do ANYTHING to elevate the increasingly immature level of discourse on this board? Its one thing to "debate" and have things "subject to opinion"...people can always agree to disagree and have those disagreements be rather spirited.

I asked an honest question, you responded with an exceedingly sarcastic, smartass, oversimplified answer that didn't do anything to answer the question I posed which was how would the liabilities you suggest be any different than those of a regular CPA or a regular financing deal.

I happen to think you're drawing wide-reaching false parallels in your "example" that aren't realistic in the world of corporate finance or the AWAC/RAH/SKW deals...and while I'm no MBA or CPA (or any kind of "expert") I can read a freaking WSJ and know just enough to know that the real world, a financing deal and a capacity purchase agreement are two separate legal transactions EVEN when they are related as they were in these cases.

Obviously a transaction as this gives the regional airline a bit of influence they otherwise wouldn't have...but that's not a heck of a lot different than the "liability" of influence that any lender has with any lendee.

goaround2000

The original point was that anyway you want to phrase it, both AWAC and RAH bought their way into a CPA. I think we agree on that. Furthermore, with regards to liabilities; with the statement above you not only confirm my point, but answer your own question. If you need to look any further than that, I suggest you recap the events that took place at Frontier post the financing offered by RAH, it really is that simple. My example as simplistic as it was for the sake of personal amusement, was spot on, you know it.

Stop being so dramatic, I called you out on your persistence in defending RAH's management point of view, which you're entitled to, but there's no need for you to turn into Woody Allen. You're going to get us in trouble with the mods.

BoilerUP

That's debatable, and subject to opinion.



Woah there skippy...never once have I defended the actions Bedford & Heller. Defend the RAH pilot group? Maybe. Remind those with fuzzy memories of the circumstances of their 2003 CBA? Definitely. Call out other pilots who bash RAH, especially regional pilots, on their hypocrisy? Always. Defend the actions of RJET management actions? Nope.

Thinking what they did to be a smart financial business decision ain't the same as defending or endorsing it.

No...you'd get you in trouble with the mods.

But, just to show how "not dramatic" I am about all this bullshizzle, if you make your way into a RON in SDF lemme know and I'll let you buy the first round of brews....deal?

goaround2000

You got it, but I only drink fine beers like bud light and MGD, none of that moonshine stuff you guys brew there....

dojetdriver

Asking a regional FO under a concessionary pay rate to buy beers can be asking a little much

blastoff

The flying everybody is competing for in the United RFP is for 46 airframes. Plenty of threads on this...but I'm not going to do the finger work to link them with my iPhone.

UND_Sioux

Just because there is a RFP (Request for Proposal), doesn't mean the company doing the requesting has to award all of the aircraft. They can award zero, part of them, or none of them.

blastoff

likewise, just because 13 ac are announced for ASA, don't assume UAL is done awarding flying, otherwise all the Mesa folks would be on here celebrating UAL not cancelling them.