Maybe, Just Maybe? Progress??
10-15-2009, 10:54 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
There's a larger issue, and that's preventing the company from arbitrarily handing out bonuses to certain groups of employees. How would you feel if your company handed out a bonus check to all the turboprop FOs because their job is much harder than that of any other pilot?
It's really the same for newhires. I don't have a problem with increasing first year pay, but I want it to be in the contract. If we allowed them to pay bonuses, they would only pay the bonus when they need pilots bad, and not when they are hiring just for attrition.
It's really the same for newhires. I don't have a problem with increasing first year pay, but I want it to be in the contract. If we allowed them to pay bonuses, they would only pay the bonus when they need pilots bad, and not when they are hiring just for attrition.
I was/am upset by this because as a junior captain, I am flying with these very low time/experience pilots. I am basically having to play flight instructor/check airman in addition to captain without getting the overide pay for having to do so. More so, it would have raised the bottom bar for pay for when we go back into contract negotiations. It would make it easier to argue for more pay for all of us in the future.
Everyone wants to make everything fair and equal except when it comes to the senior guys getting benefits above and beyond (look at the extra windfall coming to them with the start of PBS) All holidays and weekends off while the bottom can't get any off now.... before with line bids things were spread out at least a little...
10-15-2009, 11:13 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 443
Wrong. Becca started at Big Bend Community College and transferred to CWU after she got her Private. Then she instructed for 1000+ hours before going to Colgan.
10-15-2009, 11:30 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Missionary
Posts: 309
[quote=FlyASA;694737]
Unfortunately I think the mom and pop FBOs are going to ultimately get screwed and that this will close the profession off to all but the rich or the kids willing to go 150K in debt."
...thought that too! Your mom/pop FBO's will not be able to compete for the student who wants to go airline if they're not an "approved" institution. That's where you're most likely to run into the retired airline or military instructor who isn't just 3 stage checks ahead of you. Those guys instruct on the side for fun and are a wealth of information you can't get from a book or some snot-nose with 40 more hours than their students.
Makes one want to reach for "the bag inserted in each seat-pocket"
Unfortunately I think the mom and pop FBOs are going to ultimately get screwed and that this will close the profession off to all but the rich or the kids willing to go 150K in debt."
...thought that too! Your mom/pop FBO's will not be able to compete for the student who wants to go airline if they're not an "approved" institution. That's where you're most likely to run into the retired airline or military instructor who isn't just 3 stage checks ahead of you. Those guys instruct on the side for fun and are a wealth of information you can't get from a book or some snot-nose with 40 more hours than their students.
Makes one want to reach for "the bag inserted in each seat-pocket"
Last edited by NoStep; 10-15-2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason: format
10-15-2009, 11:36 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
[QUOTE=NoStep;694945]
Exactly--I learned at a Mom & Pop FBO and my two instructors were a retired AA 777 Captain/AF pilot and an F4 Pilot who taught Navy UPT for 15 years before retiring...of course those guys were way less cocky and way more willing to teach than the 23 year olds at the academies whose near singular goal is to get out of flight instructing and into an RJ...
Unfortunately I think the mom and pop FBOs are going to ultimately get screwed and that this will close the profession off to all but the rich or the kids willing to go 150K in debt."
...thought that too! Your mom/pop FBO's will not be able to compete for the student who wants to go airline if they're not an "approved" institution. That's where you're most likely to run into the retired airline or military instructor who isn't just 3 stage checks ahead of you. Those guys instruct on the side for fun and are a wealth of information you can't get from a book or some snot-nose with 40 more hours than their students.
Makes one want to reach for "the bag inserted in each seat-pocket"
...thought that too! Your mom/pop FBO's will not be able to compete for the student who wants to go airline if they're not an "approved" institution. That's where you're most likely to run into the retired airline or military instructor who isn't just 3 stage checks ahead of you. Those guys instruct on the side for fun and are a wealth of information you can't get from a book or some snot-nose with 40 more hours than their students.
Makes one want to reach for "the bag inserted in each seat-pocket"
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 117
I don't care how many "studies" are done, there is no direct correlation between success and graduating from an "accredited" aviation program.
One of my best friends at work is at his second major airline (by choice) and has nothing more than a high school diploma. If success is directly correlated to an aviation university, then how do you explain it when someone has no college, thousands of hours, multiple type ratings, and an income in excess of $150K/year as a first officer??
One of my best friends at work is at his second major airline (by choice) and has nothing more than a high school diploma. If success is directly correlated to an aviation university, then how do you explain it when someone has no college, thousands of hours, multiple type ratings, and an income in excess of $150K/year as a first officer??
That's really great about your best friend. I'm glad he's successful, but you obviously don't understand statistics. I'm not going to lecture you on it.
10-15-2009, 12:06 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 117
10-15-2009, 12:18 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Yes he was, and a little research would have told you that, as for the rest of your post, it was pretty much drivel also....do you really present your statements as fact based on one little study that no one has heard of. DO you not see the conflict of interest with who the group was that did that study....
10-15-2009, 01:05 PM
#58
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Keep the 1500 hour requirement and top it off with an undergraduate degree. Maybe shave off 300 hours for certain college courses or hell make it free CRM courses provided by the FAA so colleges can't market the fast track to the jet. I think most importantly the 6 month from zero to hero needs to be shut down. Creating barriers to entry will eventually force companies to compensate employees for the amount of work that is put in.
10-15-2009, 01:29 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
You know what, you are absolutely correct. Book smarts from the classroom of an "accredited" aviation university will always correlate into a better pilot - even more so than someone with three times the experience, double the type ratings, and a squeaky clean record but no "accredited" aviation degree. In fact, now that I think of it, those "accredited" university degrees will speak multitudes more than a pilot who only has a non-aviation degree from someplace like, say MIT. Thanks for enlightening everyone's knowledge base on statistics, it's people like you that make this world a smarter place.
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