Regional pilots shown in Capitalism movie
10-06-2009, 03:15 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 199
Thank you for taking the time to clarify your thoughts, I agree with and applaud your sentiments.
Something I think needs to be changed is the "fine print" on a lot of documents. I think all of the print should be large font and clarified in plain English. A lot of people who make poor choices with regards to money usually do so because of the fine/small print.
Me too.
Something I think needs to be changed is the "fine print" on a lot of documents. I think all of the print should be large font and clarified in plain English. A lot of people who make poor choices with regards to money usually do so because of the fine/small print.
Me too.
10-06-2009, 03:31 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
There tends to be a lot of "capitalism bashing" now as compared to five or ten years ago. Why is that? Perhaps because most people find capitalism just fine when they are doing just fine, but when things are not going the way they want, then most are quick to label capitalism as "evil". Here are my thoughts per this thread.
First, Michael Moore is most certainly a hypocrite. He criticizes capitalism for his perceived view of the system "exploiting" the little guy and gaining profitably in the process. Hmm, what is Michael Moore doing? He is profiting quite nicely by exploiting that same little guy for the sole purpose of a "documentary" about why capitalism is bad. Did it ever occur to Michael Moore that he is able to produce the films he does because of capitalism?
And how is the "little guy" who is victimized by "evil" capitalism being helped by Moore's film? Capitalism has benefited Moore very, very well. Just look at his waistline and it is easy to see he has no trouble putting food on his table.
Second, unions exist because of capitalism. How many powerful and successful unions do any of you see in Russia or China? Be careful what you wish for, especially if you think you want the government to come in and set the wages for you.
First, Michael Moore is most certainly a hypocrite. He criticizes capitalism for his perceived view of the system "exploiting" the little guy and gaining profitably in the process. Hmm, what is Michael Moore doing? He is profiting quite nicely by exploiting that same little guy for the sole purpose of a "documentary" about why capitalism is bad. Did it ever occur to Michael Moore that he is able to produce the films he does because of capitalism?
And how is the "little guy" who is victimized by "evil" capitalism being helped by Moore's film? Capitalism has benefited Moore very, very well. Just look at his waistline and it is easy to see he has no trouble putting food on his table.
Second, unions exist because of capitalism. How many powerful and successful unions do any of you see in Russia or China? Be careful what you wish for, especially if you think you want the government to come in and set the wages for you.
As for capitalism providing Moore the opportunity to make his film. That is only partially true......in that in a Laissez faire capitalist state, the film would have been legally impossible, let alone, the shooting of some of the scenes.
Bottom line; One can practice in capitalism and still criticize it without being a hypocrite.....that is, unless you're a totalitarian Laissez Faire capitalist (which is just as bad as communism)
10-06-2009, 05:56 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: O-2 pilot
Posts: 123
Sometimes I find it hard to understand how people equate the American ideal, or patriotism, with free for all capitalism. That has never been the ideal. There has always been regulations. And there is a reason why some of the first colonies/states were called commonwealths.
As I recall, Samuel Adams (the so-called "indispensable patriot") started on the road to revolution after his father was fore-closed on because of the lack of credit caused by the rich having almost all the hard specie. In other words, inequities in the economic system. The evils of hard-core capitalism and speculation were not lost on the founders.
Just as checks and balances were put into play in our republican form of democracy, there are also checks and balances built into our economic system. There is nothing anti-American about that. People shouldn't feel ashamed about it.
In our case one of our checks and balances is the Railroad Labor Act and our union. I would argue, as others here have, that pilots are hamstrung by the RLA and that the balance is skewed in favor of corporations. In the past this has been somewhat negated by rapid growth and advancement, but recently this is no longer the case. How we can bring things back into a power balance is a matter of debate. Perhaps a re-working of the RLA. Probably more likely would be some regulatory fixes by Congress to work rules, minimum pay, etc. I don't think any blue-blooded capitalist has to suffer idealogical pain if they are perhaps paid more than the market will bear through Congressional legislation. It's just our economic system being put back into balance.
Our unions should not be totally left off the hook for low regional FO pay, however. It is they who divide the pie between crew members.
Anyway, I plan on seeing Moore's film tomorrow. I'll do so without guilt or idealogical dilema.
As I recall, Samuel Adams (the so-called "indispensable patriot") started on the road to revolution after his father was fore-closed on because of the lack of credit caused by the rich having almost all the hard specie. In other words, inequities in the economic system. The evils of hard-core capitalism and speculation were not lost on the founders.
Just as checks and balances were put into play in our republican form of democracy, there are also checks and balances built into our economic system. There is nothing anti-American about that. People shouldn't feel ashamed about it.
In our case one of our checks and balances is the Railroad Labor Act and our union. I would argue, as others here have, that pilots are hamstrung by the RLA and that the balance is skewed in favor of corporations. In the past this has been somewhat negated by rapid growth and advancement, but recently this is no longer the case. How we can bring things back into a power balance is a matter of debate. Perhaps a re-working of the RLA. Probably more likely would be some regulatory fixes by Congress to work rules, minimum pay, etc. I don't think any blue-blooded capitalist has to suffer idealogical pain if they are perhaps paid more than the market will bear through Congressional legislation. It's just our economic system being put back into balance.
Our unions should not be totally left off the hook for low regional FO pay, however. It is they who divide the pie between crew members.
Anyway, I plan on seeing Moore's film tomorrow. I'll do so without guilt or idealogical dilema.
10-06-2009, 06:15 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: O-2 pilot
Posts: 123
Oh, yeah. I forgot one thing. Not to be a knit pick, but a few post back Lab Rat said the unions are the offspring of captalism and couldn't be in Russia or China, or something to that effect. Basically that unions owe their existance to capitalism.
What about the Solidarity movement in Poland? It was the unions that existed in communist Poland that brought an end to Communism. So, in that case at least, it was the unions that spawned capitalism and democracy, not the other way around.
Something to think about...
What about the Solidarity movement in Poland? It was the unions that existed in communist Poland that brought an end to Communism. So, in that case at least, it was the unions that spawned capitalism and democracy, not the other way around.
Something to think about...
10-06-2009, 07:21 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: seated beer curl
Posts: 406
Sometimes I find it hard to understand how people equate the American ideal, or patriotism, with free for all capitalism. That has never been the ideal. There has always been regulations. And there is a reason why some of the first colonies/states were called commonwealths.
As I recall, Samuel Adams (the so-called "indispensable patriot") started on the road to revolution after his father was fore-closed on because of the lack of credit caused by the rich having almost all the hard specie. In other words, inequities in the economic system. The evils of hard-core capitalism and speculation were not lost on the founders.
Just as checks and balances were put into play in our republican form of democracy, there are also checks and balances built into our economic system. There is nothing anti-American about that. People shouldn't feel ashamed about it.
In our case one of our checks and balances is the Railroad Labor Act and our union. I would argue, as others here have, that pilots are hamstrung by the RLA and that the balance is skewed in favor of corporations. In the past this has been somewhat negated by rapid growth and advancement, but recently this is no longer the case. How we can bring things back into a power balance is a matter of debate. Perhaps a re-working of the RLA. Probably more likely would be some regulatory fixes by Congress to work rules, minimum pay, etc. I don't think any blue-blooded capitalist has to suffer idealogical pain if they are perhaps paid more than the market will bear through Congressional legislation. It's just our economic system being put back into balance.
Our unions should not be totally left off the hook for low regional FO pay, however. It is they who divide the pie between crew members.
Anyway, I plan on seeing Moore's film tomorrow. I'll do so without guilt or idealogical dilema.
As I recall, Samuel Adams (the so-called "indispensable patriot") started on the road to revolution after his father was fore-closed on because of the lack of credit caused by the rich having almost all the hard specie. In other words, inequities in the economic system. The evils of hard-core capitalism and speculation were not lost on the founders.
Just as checks and balances were put into play in our republican form of democracy, there are also checks and balances built into our economic system. There is nothing anti-American about that. People shouldn't feel ashamed about it.
In our case one of our checks and balances is the Railroad Labor Act and our union. I would argue, as others here have, that pilots are hamstrung by the RLA and that the balance is skewed in favor of corporations. In the past this has been somewhat negated by rapid growth and advancement, but recently this is no longer the case. How we can bring things back into a power balance is a matter of debate. Perhaps a re-working of the RLA. Probably more likely would be some regulatory fixes by Congress to work rules, minimum pay, etc. I don't think any blue-blooded capitalist has to suffer idealogical pain if they are perhaps paid more than the market will bear through Congressional legislation. It's just our economic system being put back into balance.
Our unions should not be totally left off the hook for low regional FO pay, however. It is they who divide the pie between crew members.
Anyway, I plan on seeing Moore's film tomorrow. I'll do so without guilt or idealogical dilema.
10-06-2009, 07:23 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Hotel
Posts: 714
Some good points made.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
10-06-2009, 07:47 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Some good points made.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
You call it a skill that many people lack. I call it a skill of not settling when it can be a little, or alot better.
Last edited by Zapata; 10-06-2009 at 08:03 PM.
10-06-2009, 08:31 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Hotel
Posts: 714
"Good enough" for everyone? Yes, we have many privileges of which others cannot even dream. However, even in the USA, your "good enough" doesn't apply to everyone. There are oodles of folks that are far less fortunate through no fault of their own. Yes, there are those that their misfortune is indeed their doing. Nevertheless, it is ironic how you use "good enough" as if there is equal opportunity. The implication that there is a level playing field in the USA is mere fantasy......or at least, rationalizing for denial's sake.
You call it a skill that many people lack. I call it a skill of not settling when it can be a little, or alot better.
You call it a skill that many people lack. I call it a skill of not settling when it can be a little, or alot better.
Some are born into worse conditions than others. But, anyone can rise above the masses if they have the desire, but more importantly DO something about their condition. Many people live a life of being a victim, largely perpetuated by the welfare program and other social agendas.
Speaking of the welfare program in general, many of these folks make the "rational" decision to have more kids because their government subsidy will increase. More kids born into this lifestyle will adapt to it and continue to suck off the system.
The only thing that motivates is raw necessity. You've got to increase one's necessity level in order to spur action and that means they've got to get burned in order align their future actions with the objective of avoiding being burned again. Some will pass the test and some won't. Those who won't - what do you do with them? They live in the streets or live in section 8 housing on someone else's dime. I guess the latter is probably the better decision in this case. I understand that not all are loafs and any alluding to that fact is not meant. But, those who are, are the ones I am referring to.
The playing field is not level. No doubt about that. But, what is the solution? Wealth distribution? An economic system where a fraction of the citizens are increasingly supporting the others will not work.
Anyway, we've sort of derailed from the original topic of the thread. This thread was about something to do with pilots right?
10-06-2009, 09:18 PM
#59
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 19
Some good points made.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
The business world is LADEN with regulations as it is. It is easy for the lay person to look at the recent events and cry for more regulation. But what do you do? What do you regulate? What specific rules need be implemented?
Freedoms are taken away quite often under the guise of saving us from something bad. Those with motives outside the raw improvement of humanity will exploit the current frustration experienced out there to implement a new "thing" on the law books that ultimately serves a more devious purpose.
This is the wealthiest country on the plant. The mean economic level of even the lowly FO is orders of magnitude above that of most other countries' citizens. For myself, even in this recession, I've got 4 cars in the driveway, keys to an airplane, 3 computers, 3 television sets, high speed internet, a closet full of clothes, and a kitchen stocked full of food. I'm a furloughed FO working on my CPA and my wife makes a fairly meager paycheck and yes, we are debt free save for the mortgage.
So, something must work with this economy. It will never be perfect. However, the ability to leave "good enough" alone is a skill that many lack.
- medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.
- most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance
- Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college
- In many cases, illness forced time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.
US National Debt-11.4 Trillion(dont confuse debt for wealth
)The ability to understand that it can happen to you is a skill that many lack.
-oh and the 3 televisions, 4 cars, airplane blah blah etc......I have to say that's almost impossible to have and not be in debt if you have no job and your wife has the "meager" paychecks. Unless you own a bunch of beat up hatchbacks or something, or maybe you're not giving the wife enough credit on her "fairly meager" pay check
10-06-2009, 09:43 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 199
So what do you do? Be specific.
Some are born into worse conditions than others. But, anyone can rise above the masses if they have the desire, but more importantly DO something about their condition. Many people live a life of being a victim, largely perpetuated by the welfare program and other social agendas.
Speaking of the welfare program in general, many of these folks make the "rational" decision to have more kids because their government subsidy will increase. More kids born into this lifestyle will adapt to it and continue to suck off the system.
The only thing that motivates is raw necessity. You've got to increase one's necessity level in order to spur action and that means they've got to get burned in order align their future actions with the objective of avoiding being burned again. Some will pass the test and some won't. Those who won't - what do you do with them? They live in the streets or live in section 8 housing on someone else's dime. I guess the latter is probably the better decision in this case. I understand that not all are loafs and any alluding to that fact is not meant. But, those who are, are the ones I am referring to.
The playing field is not level. No doubt about that. But, what is the solution? Wealth distribution? An economic system where a fraction of the citizens are increasingly supporting the others will not work.
Anyway, we've sort of derailed from the original topic of the thread. This thread was about something to do with pilots right?
Some are born into worse conditions than others. But, anyone can rise above the masses if they have the desire, but more importantly DO something about their condition. Many people live a life of being a victim, largely perpetuated by the welfare program and other social agendas.
Speaking of the welfare program in general, many of these folks make the "rational" decision to have more kids because their government subsidy will increase. More kids born into this lifestyle will adapt to it and continue to suck off the system.
The only thing that motivates is raw necessity. You've got to increase one's necessity level in order to spur action and that means they've got to get burned in order align their future actions with the objective of avoiding being burned again. Some will pass the test and some won't. Those who won't - what do you do with them? They live in the streets or live in section 8 housing on someone else's dime. I guess the latter is probably the better decision in this case. I understand that not all are loafs and any alluding to that fact is not meant. But, those who are, are the ones I am referring to.
The playing field is not level. No doubt about that. But, what is the solution? Wealth distribution? An economic system where a fraction of the citizens are increasingly supporting the others will not work.
Anyway, we've sort of derailed from the original topic of the thread. This thread was about something to do with pilots right?
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