sinsilvia666

The movie to me wasn't a political push for dem or rep, it was a simple analysis of the disappearing middle class, which is happening, how real people are losing their homes, and how company's are profiting off of other peoples misfortune.

Which is why I think everyone should see it since all it favors is the working class. The more informed everyone is, the smarter decisions we can all make.

cybourg10

If it wasn't for the RLA we would be paid higher wages. There is no true free market system for airline employees, the airline industry is a product of corporate socialism. Until we are given a fair chance to negotiate our contracts and have the right to strike (which is where our leverage comes from) capitalism should not be discussed because it is not present in our industry. $22-25 an hour is not what the market demands, acceptance of this by guys like you makes it tougher for the rest of us to progress. The system is rigged, bring on the free market and lets see who really has the power.

cybourg10

I don't called it exploiting, he has employees himself and practices what he preaches. He is benefiting from hard work and putting out a product that people are willing to pay for. What he argues against is what capitalism, as defined by politicians and CEOs, is not really true democratic capitalism that they advertise to the American people. Why so many people buy into the thinking that they aren't, or someday will move out of, part of the dying middle class is beyond my comprehension. Union busting, deregulation, excessive debt on all levels are some of the biggest contributors to the decline in America and the people eat up the garbage that this system is good for us.

bryris

You obviously don't know me.

Lab Rat

I don't disagree with you that his film favors one political party over the next. What I honestly believe is Moore saw an opportunity and seized it. I don't find that a bad thing, as the free market encourages us to do so and nobody forces anyone to buy or not to buy a particular product or service.

But is it an accurate and honest analysis? As I see it, the shrinking of the middle class is attributable to two things: higher taxes and inflation. The government raises taxes and institutes new ones which puts less money in people's pockets. When more money is printed, inflation will cause prices to increase. Solution? A true stimulus by lowering taxes will put more money in the private sector, stimulate the economy, and thus grow the middle class.

Some people do lose their homes for very legitimate reasons - loss of income, illness, etc. However, most are losing their homes because they couldn't afford them in the first place. The market is simply doing what it is designed to do. What a lot of people are not looking at are two things: first, approximately 5% of the mortgages out there are in foreclosure. Second, home prices are down considerably which makes this an excellent market for those who can afford to purchase a home.

I am not going to say that all companies are immune from evil business practices. However, and this is where I can pinpoint Moore's hypocrisy, Michael Moore is profiting off of other peoples misfortune when he produces a film about businesses profiting off of other peoples misfortune. In other words, the pot calling the kettle black.

Assuming everyone is accurately informed.

Lab Rat

Noted. Exploiting was probably too harsh of a term.

I will agree with this. I don't agree with what he preaches in his films, but he is putting a product into the free market and anyone who buys a ticket is willfully purchasing a ticket. That is capitalism and I say more power to anyone willing to partake in it. The success or failure of such product or service will be dictated by how many people are willing to open their wallets for it.

I do agree with some of what you are saying here. In a previous post I did state that all companies are not immune to evil and deceitful business practices - that is just a simple part of human nature. But, I feel Moore does paint with a wide brush stroke and many people who buy into his logic do come away with a true anti-capitalist mindset.

As far as "defined by politicians and CEO's", I think more so by the politicians. In a true market, with very little government interference (I don't mean lack of regs), unions would have the freedom to strike when deemed necessary. This is a capitalism tool as it allows both sides to bargain - negotiate with us until we agree or we withhold our services until you do. Eventually a balance is struck.

Debt is not good on any level. As far as personal, I do believe that each person is 100% accountable for their own debt. Managers of a business are not exempt either. Debt is risk and says one is betting that they will pay off the debt before the money runs out. Works for some but not for others.

I think the term "garbage" is totally subjective in this context. The individual who migrates to America with no money, is able to open up a business and become a millionaire within 5 years would probably disagree with you. The system, as imperfect as it is, has worked for me and is much better than any type of socialist system. A big reason for that is because I know the only person looking out for me is me. While I am far from being a millionaire, I am very self-sufficient due in large part to capitalism and my attitude of not relying on anyone else for my own well-being. I'm not bragging, and I apologize if I sound like I am, but just wanted to share my reasons for why I feel like the system is the best system we have.

nordo

Haven't seen the movie yet, but will. It would have been useful if he had mentioned that we are subject to the RLA and that's one reason we can't strike for living wages... Moore is very pro-Union and I'll bet that he might not have known about the relationship of the airlines to the RLA or he might have mentioned it.

I have written my congressman and asked him why we have to (1) be subject to the RLA and (2) if it might not be time to change our subjugation to our corporate masters via that arcane bit of legislation either through a rewrite or just letting us be like any other Union employees in the US.

in RE Congressman: crickets.

cybourg10

Perhaps garbage was too broad of a term, or I didn't specify what part of the system is garbage. What you have done, being self sufficient, working hard, making the right moves at the right time is true capitalism and I applaud you for your success. The garbage part is when a large bank takes excessive risks for short term profits and them comes crawling to the tax payer for a bailout when their bet doesn't pan out. The garbage part is when the top 1% now has more than the bottom 95% and implements predatory lending practices to the middle class, while at the same time taking away our power to unionize and strike. The banks have gotten too big and now they control EVERYTHING. I love true capitalism and I can't wait for the day when we actually have it here in the USA. The system is rigged.

cybourg10

Nice post. Up until this recent downturn the PHDs over at the Fed thought they had pretty much solved the boom/bust cycle. Just goes to show you humans will always get too excited when its good and too depressed when its bad (which is why smart regulation is necessary).

Lab Rat

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your thoughts, I agree with and applaud your sentiments.

Something I think needs to be changed is the "fine print" on a lot of documents. I think all of the print should be large font and clarified in plain English. A lot of people who make poor choices with regards to money usually do so because of the fine/small print.

Me too.