Skywest/ASA guys.
09-28-2009, 12:36 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
See what you are asking is "trade secret" stuff. That is in the last 11 pages of the DCI/ASA/SKW Air Service agreement that was signed. You are not going to see that unless you sign one big ole thick NDA, and therefore we cannot talk about that. Not trying to be a jerk, but that is big stuff that will land you in court.
This table was published at the end of last year in the 10-K. What this means is that at the time of the DCI Ar Service contract expiration in 2020.
We can assume all that we want, but go look at the DCI contract. It is on the SEC website. It is a good read. Fact is that you did not get the aircraft all at once, and I would be floored if they left all at once, but this is what the last day of that contract has in terms of service.
Now, there will be amendments to that agreement. ASA's second hurdle is next fall when they get to DOS+5 on that contract. You need to be in the bottom two as it pertains to total cost. I do not see you or SKW being there. When that happens there are certain things that are spelled out and some that are not that will happen. Most likely you will see DAL tell your company that they will not be paying the leases on the jets. It will come under the responsibility of the service provider (your airline) to pay the leases to fly the jets. They will not just be transferred leases from the DAL name to ASA or SKW. What that means is that they will be more expensive. SKW Inc may balk, and say no way.
The catch 22 to all of that is then if you do not have a jet to perform the contract you are in breach and DAL can void it. (Just my assumptions after reading the public copy, but in the end that is why I would not make EV my home. I had great seniority and good pay, but I say 10 more years tops before the bottom started falling out)
This table was published at the end of last year in the 10-K. What this means is that at the time of the DCI Ar Service contract expiration in 2020.
We can assume all that we want, but go look at the DCI contract. It is on the SEC website. It is a good read. Fact is that you did not get the aircraft all at once, and I would be floored if they left all at once, but this is what the last day of that contract has in terms of service.
Now, there will be amendments to that agreement. ASA's second hurdle is next fall when they get to DOS+5 on that contract. You need to be in the bottom two as it pertains to total cost. I do not see you or SKW being there. When that happens there are certain things that are spelled out and some that are not that will happen. Most likely you will see DAL tell your company that they will not be paying the leases on the jets. It will come under the responsibility of the service provider (your airline) to pay the leases to fly the jets. They will not just be transferred leases from the DAL name to ASA or SKW. What that means is that they will be more expensive. SKW Inc may balk, and say no way.
The catch 22 to all of that is then if you do not have a jet to perform the contract you are in breach and DAL can void it. (Just my assumptions after reading the public copy, but in the end that is why I would not make EV my home. I had great seniority and good pay, but I say 10 more years tops before the bottom started falling out)
09-28-2009, 12:40 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
As for the "your" airline comment, It sounded like you were an EV pilots since you were asking about EV.
All of these contracts has the similar metrics and benchmarks. It will make for interesting play going forward.
IMHO, DCI will always be there, but to what level and how many players is up to the execs at any given time. I see the numbers changing.
09-28-2009, 12:45 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Pinnacle has a different agreement, but it has a lot of the same language. DAL used the same template for many of these. The others were not the same duration as SKW/ASA.
As for the "your" airline comment, It sounded like you were an EV pilots since you were asking about EV.
All of these contracts has the same metrics and benchmarks. It will make for interesting play going forward.
IMHO, DCI will always be there, but to what level and how many players is up to the execs at any given time. I see the numbers changing.
As for the "your" airline comment, It sounded like you were an EV pilots since you were asking about EV.
All of these contracts has the same metrics and benchmarks. It will make for interesting play going forward.
IMHO, DCI will always be there, but to what level and how many players is up to the execs at any given time. I see the numbers changing.
09-28-2009, 12:47 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Port of Indecision and Southwest of Disorder
Posts: 587
Pinnacle has a different agreement, but it has a lot of the same language. DAL used the same template for many of these. The others were not the same duration as SKW/ASA.
As for the "your" airline comment, It sounded like you were an EV pilots since you were asking about EV.
All of these contracts has the same metrics and benchmarks. It will make for interesting play going forward.
IMHO, DCI will always be there, but to what level and how many players is up to the execs at any given time. I see the numbers changing.
As for the "your" airline comment, It sounded like you were an EV pilots since you were asking about EV.
All of these contracts has the same metrics and benchmarks. It will make for interesting play going forward.
IMHO, DCI will always be there, but to what level and how many players is up to the execs at any given time. I see the numbers changing.
What are your thoughts on the wholly owned carriers, Mesaba, Compass, and Comair going forward? Comair already has a lot of pilots on furlough, and Mesaba has a few, with many more to follow it seems as the Saabs go away.
09-28-2009, 12:56 PM
#16
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Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The WO carriers have not Air Services contracts so they are a necessary accumulator in the DCI system. It stinks right now since this is where the majority of furloughs are taking place. What I see is as the economy recovers and or some of the third party contracts are voided, the WO carriers will see an increase in flying. There is a lot more flexibility to WO airlines. They can shrink and expand as needed.
I would hope that DAL has seen the issues with the third party deals when the economy goes south, and would shy away from them going forward. As we know it is always good to have a bunch in the mix to keep all parties guessing, so I would assume two or three WO carriers and two or three third party airlines will make up DCI.
I am not implying that a WO carrier is going out of business at all. I said two or three. DAL may decide to sell one, combine two or the like. They are tinkering with the system. That is all I mean. Nothing more.
09-28-2009, 12:57 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: crj-200 FO
Posts: 479
Wonder that this years 10-K is going to look like... then everyone can see is black and white how much DAL changes their minds.
Airsupport - You know as well as we do, we have no idea what is going to happen in the next 11 days needless to say in 11yrs. So why even ask??? Look at it... Freedom is on there too... and I would bet you that 2009's 10-K is going to look different. If you are trying to ask if we are parking planes... as far as I know... only planes getting parked are the 20 200s we traded for the 10 900's and we all knew about that. TO BE CONTINUED.... (when DAL starts the musical chairs again)
Airsupport - You know as well as we do, we have no idea what is going to happen in the next 11 days needless to say in 11yrs. So why even ask??? Look at it... Freedom is on there too... and I would bet you that 2009's 10-K is going to look different. If you are trying to ask if we are parking planes... as far as I know... only planes getting parked are the 20 200s we traded for the 10 900's and we all knew about that. TO BE CONTINUED.... (when DAL starts the musical chairs again)
09-28-2009, 01:04 PM
#18
I have shiny jet syndrome
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: ELACS, FACs and SECs. Who doesn't love 'em?
Posts: 984
Wonder that this years 10-K is going to look like... then everyone can see is black and white how much DAL changes their minds.
Airsupport - You know as well as we do, we have no idea what is going to happen in the next 11 days needless to say in 11yrs. So why even ask??? Look at it... Freedom is on there too... and I would bet you that 2009's 10-K is going to look different. If you are trying to ask if we are parking planes... as far as I know... only planes getting parked are the 20 200s we traded for the 10 900's and we all knew about that. TO BE CONTINUED.... (when DAL starts the musical chairs again)
Airsupport - You know as well as we do, we have no idea what is going to happen in the next 11 days needless to say in 11yrs. So why even ask??? Look at it... Freedom is on there too... and I would bet you that 2009's 10-K is going to look different. If you are trying to ask if we are parking planes... as far as I know... only planes getting parked are the 20 200s we traded for the 10 900's and we all knew about that. TO BE CONTINUED.... (when DAL starts the musical chairs again)
What Delta giveth, Delta taketh away!
Last edited by RJtrashPilot; 09-28-2009 at 01:19 PM.
09-28-2009, 01:19 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
If you think this is by mistake you are kidding yourself. This perception that is brought forth is carefully crafted by some of the most skilled Labor Relations professionals in the business.
09-28-2009, 01:23 PM
#20
I have shiny jet syndrome
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: ELACS, FACs and SECs. Who doesn't love 'em?
Posts: 984
Of course it's by design! No doubt about it.
And actually, my quote " what Delta giveth, Delta taketh away" isn't mine. I must say it was from a captain I flew with recently and his exact quote what "What God giveth, Delta taketh away".
Seems appropriate!
And actually, my quote " what Delta giveth, Delta taketh away" isn't mine. I must say it was from a captain I flew with recently and his exact quote what "What God giveth, Delta taketh away".
Seems appropriate!
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