46 dash 8s to colgan
09-28-2009, 10:36 PM
#41
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61.
(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) of this section if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(iii) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device, representing an airplane.
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
A person should be able to easily meet ATP mins as an FO for any 121/135 airline. Therefore, no 172 rental required.
(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) of this section if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(iii) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device, representing an airplane.
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
A person should be able to easily meet ATP mins as an FO for any 121/135 airline. Therefore, no 172 rental required.
09-28-2009, 10:57 PM
#42
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I think this needs to be pointed out more. So many people don't understand. When you get hired with 250 hours TT you will still need to go fly a 172 to get the PIC required for upgrade. I also hope no airline will pay for these guys to fly a 172, they had no business flying people with that little PIC time anyway. We had this problem a couple of years ago when the guys hired in the late 90s with little time went in to upgrade. They got to the oral and the check airman looked at their 8710 and showed them the door.
09-29-2009, 06:28 AM
#44
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Yeah so was I. People hired with 250 TT do NOT have 250 PIC. We had some people with 6000+ SIC but less than 250 PIC that were shown the door during their upgrade oral and told to come back when they had 250 PIC.
09-29-2009, 07:23 AM
#45
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Hasn't this already come up - in this thread?
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
A person should be able to easily meet ATP mins as an FO for any 121/135 airline. Therefore, no 172 rental required.
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
A person should be able to easily meet ATP mins as an FO for any 121/135 airline. Therefore, no 172 rental required.
Here's my previous response, though 'shfo' is on to it as well. Pay particular attention to the part I bolded (and the part you bolded, incidentally).
6) 250 hours of PIC (or as SIC “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”. If you do it this way, you have to do @ least 100 hours of XC and 25 hours of night as “SIC performing the duties and functions of a PIC”)
a. if you’re wondering what this “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”, think new line CA doing IOE. They are “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”, but the Check Airman sitting in the right seat is actually the PIC. If you’re just an FO, you’re not doing this. Essentially, you need 250 PIC.
The other big hang-up is the 250 PIC. You can't count 'student pilot' time, which is the time you spent getting your private (the first PIC you can log is your Private Pilot Check-ride), and the time in a MEL you spent getting your MEL (your first hour of multi-PIC is likely your CMEL-I ride). Just go rent a 152 if you need extra PIC time . . .
09-29-2009, 08:16 AM
#46
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'COTriple7', did you read my previous post in this thread, or even the FAR you quoted, and even put in bold? I underlined the part I believe you overlooked regarding if you don't have 250 PIC before you're hired @ a regional.
Here's my previous response, though 'shfo' is on to it as well. Pay particular attention to the part I bolded (and the part you bolded, incidentally).
Here's my previous response, though 'shfo' is on to it as well. Pay particular attention to the part I bolded (and the part you bolded, incidentally).
Is this how it works at Mesa? I am just curious because I was under the impression that FOs who were hired with wet commercials are second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least 100 hours of cross-country flight time and 25 hours of night flight time.
The regulation definitely says OR, not and, or including, or anything making signing pilot PIC the sole qualifier.
09-29-2009, 08:37 AM
#47
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The problem is many Feds and POIs disagree on the intent of second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command.
Regardless, you cannot perform the duties of PIC if you don't have a PIC type rating which is the case of most FOs commuters.
Regardless, you cannot perform the duties of PIC if you don't have a PIC type rating which is the case of most FOs commuters.
09-29-2009, 08:50 AM
#48
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The problem is many Feds and POIs disagree on the intent of second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command.
Regardless, you cannot perform the duties of PIC if you don't have a PIC type rating which is the case of most FOs commuters.
Regardless, you cannot perform the duties of PIC if you don't have a PIC type rating which is the case of most FOs commuters.
This is not up to the whim of a POI, or an individual FSDO. Here is a little more The administrator states the following:
61.55 (2) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes—
(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and
(iii) Crew resource management training.
(g) The holder of a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (b)(2) of this section, provided the pilot:
(1) Is conducting a ferry flight, aircraft flight test, or evaluation flight of an aircraft's equipment; and
(2) Is not carrying any person or property on board the aircraft, other than necessary for conduct of the flight.
(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and
(iii) Crew resource management training.
(g) The holder of a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (b)(2) of this section, provided the pilot:
(1) Is conducting a ferry flight, aircraft flight test, or evaluation flight of an aircraft's equipment; and
(2) Is not carrying any person or property on board the aircraft, other than necessary for conduct of the flight.
I'll let you figure it out.
09-29-2009, 08:52 AM
#49
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Is this how it works at Mesa? I am just curious because I was under the impression that FOs who were hired with wet commercials are second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least 100 hours of cross-country flight time and 25 hours of night flight time.
The regulation definitely says OR, not and, or including, or anything making signing pilot PIC the sole qualifier.
The regulation definitely says OR, not and, or including, or anything making signing pilot PIC the sole qualifier.
As has been previously pointed out, this will vary a little from carrier to carrier, since each POI decides what that wording means. In some cases you will find some regionals that will accept SIC time as an FO toward that number, while at many more you will find that the meanign of that verbage is exactly as Sniper said, a baby CA doing IOE.
Example of how many are reading it, especially since the Colgan crash...
With an SIC only type rating you can not perform the functions of the PIC... did you sign for the release? No, case closed.
09-29-2009, 09:02 AM
#50
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As has been previously pointed out, this will vary a little from carrier to carrier, since each POI decides what that wording means. In some cases you will find some regionals that will accept SIC time as an FO toward that number, while at many more you will find that the meanign of that verbage is exactly as Sniper said, a baby CA doing IOE.
Example of how many are reading it, especially since the Colgan crash...
With an SIC only type rating you can not perform the functions of the PIC... did you sign for the release? No, case closed.
Example of how many are reading it, especially since the Colgan crash...
With an SIC only type rating you can not perform the functions of the PIC... did you sign for the release? No, case closed.
Do POIs get to increase duty times, and minimum rest requirements because of the way they interpret the regulations also? Why are some individuals so hell bent on spreading misinformation?
-The Stig
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