Banshee365

The timing probably has more to do with positioning the company to bid for some upcoming flying for our 50 seaters we're losing out of the DCI system. I really don't think the PBS work has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the effective date on the last round of furlough's. I understand it's easy to be mad at the union/company/industry/world when you get furloughed but you have got to be on board with what is better for the company in regards to getting more flying so you can get your butt back in the seat. Would you be happier if the was still a wall between the union and company regarding PBS so we can remain one of the most expensive bids for any flying we try and get?

gtechpilot

There were several people, myself included, who predicted that the company would only come to the table for PBS after everyone unprotected by the no furlough clause was gone. PBS makes absolutely no sense for the company in a stagnant economy unless they shed pilots and so they did. Not two months ago, the union said the company was not offering anything and suddenly not two weeks after the last furloughs, the company is more agreeable?

Are you furloughed? Have you been? If so, you might be in a position to understand. Besides, I have every right to be mad at a company that is laying off so many employees while still being VERY profitable and while throwing frivolous parties like Aceyplaooza. Trying to get help or communication from the union has been worse than getting my last root canal! As for the industry/world, it is what it is, so why get upset?

I am definitely not onboard with something that will keep me on the street longer unless it improves quality of life for the pilot group. I reserve judgement there, but don't kid yourself about ASA getting additional flying anytime soon to bring us back. Between PBS and the loss of the ATRs, we will still have a net loss of pilot positions, even if we place all 20 50-seaters.

Nothing personal meant by any of this, but between the cold shoulder from the union, the upcoming elections and the timing of recent announcements, I'm fairly confident in saying (without emotion) our MEC sold the furloughees out.

sweptback

Cold shoulder from the union? The pilots are paying for your COBRA payments... how is that a cold shoulder?

I feel for you, being unemployed in this market (I have a close friend in a very similar state). But what more would you want the union to do?

And, like others have said, the only way you're getting your job back is via 1. attrition (not likely) or 2. growth. PBS gives us a much, much better chance to grow. It may suck in the short term, but long term hopefully things are rosy.

broncoflyer8912

Not that I am totally agreeing with the MEC selling the furloughs out, I think the company realized when we started PBS negotiations and that one of our MEC's requirements of PBS was no more furloughs, the company decided to stop pushing PBS until they could furlough at the end of the summer and then go right back to pushing PBS. I think this is more of the company's fault than the MEC.

dojetdriver

Like you, not to steer the thread, but you have a good point. Besides, it may be multiple carriers that get awarded it.

See above, if XJT gets awarded any of it, especially the turbo prop part, they (or any other all jet carrier that bid on it) is going to have to absorb some serious costs to get it going. Unless UAL wants to help out, but I really don't see that happening.

For ASA, probably not as much. For XJT, even though it's still on the certificate, they haven't operated a prop in years. Getting them out of the desert, dusting off the training program, getting the senior geezers in the training department re-schooled on the aircraft isn't going to be cheap, nor easy.

TimSmith

I was at ASA and finally had to leave because of the circus named management. They always promised the stars, but had no clue why nothing ever materialized. Money is not why I left. I am $40K lighter in the wallet, pre-tax, than if I stayed. I won't pass the financial break even point on the move for about 6 more years.

I preface with that information only to say I would do it again in a heartbeat because of ALPA at ASA. If leadership has changed, my apologies. Otherwise, ALPA leaders at ASA were ineffective, incompetent, and did not provide good representation for ASA's members. When ALPA sold me up the river along with 100 other pilots because they were more interested in a p***in match with management, that was the last straw for me. Beware of anything this group "sells," much less negotiates. Read it carefully. Understand what it means. Then vote your conscience.

I wish the best for you guys over there. I had just had my fill and had to move on. And while some on here will say, "good riddance" of a bad apple, understand that I was not by any means the most disgruntled person to leave. Remember October 2006? Not many "dream" jobs hiring that month. ASA lost 65 captains. Where did they go? I know where about 20 of them went. Different places around the industry. I do know that when asked why they were leaving, it was almost a unanimous they were making the happiest decision in their careers.

A few years of my many there, ASA was a decent place to work, maybe even good. It just always reverted back to crappy. Present example, junior manning while furloughing. PBS may work out for ASA. Just verify it is your best interests before implementing it. +1 to the person making the comment about schedules and RFP's. ASA will win RFP's based on bid price partially controlled by price structure. The only way PBS affects a lower RFP bid price is by lowering labor costs, i.e. less pilots, or less over guarantee flying. Therefore management is running the same circus as when I was there. "Do this for us, trust us, and we will grow like crazy and your QOL and paycheck will improve." Be very wary if ALPA sings the same song. Past performance has not proved their trustworthiness.

gtechpilot

Yeah, that's the company being the company though. I kind of expected that behavior from them. The thing is that the MEC knew (from talking to committee members I flew with) that the company would do this and just shrugged. I was told by MEC members that PBS would not help the company unless they furloughed or there was massive attrition, so here we are!

Hey, good luck on your run at it - it really would be nice to see someone representing all of the FO's interests!

gtechpilot

I'm not bashing the pilot group there, but ask anyone furloughed how easy it is to get info from 'our' union.

As for being unemployed, the only thing I would have asked from the union was for us to have the same flight benefits that the first group had so that I could more easily make it to interviews. Unfortunately, and I am almost quoting what I was told when I asked, the union had little interest in fighting for that when there were so many larger issues to deal with.

As for returning to ASA, the best possibility actually is attrition. I may eat my words on this later, but I'd be surprised to see any actual growth even if Mesa magically goes under. And if the 20 50-seaters don't find work, expect more furloughs, even with PBS.

Don't get me wrong, I think PBS is the future and needs to happen, but the timing it suspicious and I hope everyone thinks long and hard before accepting anything substandard just to 'keep us competitive'.

Ok, back to lurking, don't mind the troll.

sweptback

As ASA is the one that provides flight benefits, your anger is misplaced. Since we don't "own" furloughee flight benefits in the contract, all ALPA could do is ask nicely. I'm sure they did that, and I'm sure ASA told them to pound sand.

gtechpilot

Flight benefits are a negotiated privilege, not something ASA provides out of the goodness of their hearts. Our union negotiated the benefit for one group but not the second? Why is that acceptable? And personally, I don't like or trust union leadership who is ok with being told to pound sand. But, I don't get a voice in the next election so just blowing smoke here.