Letter from a gojets pilot
09-07-2009, 07:01 PM
#81
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Hopefully there are pilots out there who will read the arguments and decide, like I did, that the unemployment line or work outside aviation is better than supporting a pilot group that hinders negotiations at TSA. I believe strongly that the TSA pilot group is unified and determined to make up for the hard work they have put into TSA and what has been lacking contractually in the past.
09-07-2009, 08:05 PM
#82
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
And thats what I have always tried (but sometimes failed) to avoid. I try to back up my beliefs with reason and fact, no matter how I feel about the subject.
Hopefully there are pilots out there who will read the arguments and decide, like I did, that the unemployment line or work outside aviation is better than supporting a pilot group that hinders negotiations at TSA. I believe strongly that the TSA pilot group is unified and determined to make up for the hard work they have put into TSA and what has been lacking contractually in the past.
Hopefully there are pilots out there who will read the arguments and decide, like I did, that the unemployment line or work outside aviation is better than supporting a pilot group that hinders negotiations at TSA. I believe strongly that the TSA pilot group is unified and determined to make up for the hard work they have put into TSA and what has been lacking contractually in the past.
I mean is it that surprising that it has taken this long to get something better than the current TSA contract, arguably one of the worst, while Gojet, even Mesa did in less than 2 years? Who are they kidding with the BS? Management hates your guts. You need to give in order to receive.
09-07-2009, 08:15 PM
#83
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
I could just imagine you on the negotiating committee for a union. "Yeah, we had to take a pay cut of $5 across the board...but at least it wasn't $6!
09-08-2009, 05:02 AM
#85
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,773
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2 APC members discussing GoJet, scope, bottom-feeders, Mesa, Republic, and other airlines in person.
2 APC members discussing GoJet, scope, bottom-feeders, Mesa, Republic, and other airlines in person.
09-08-2009, 06:41 AM
#86
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: A220 CA
Posts: 607
i guess i wouldn't feel quite so bad if someone who was at gojets actually knew what happened back when the company was started. well, i'm sure a few gojets people do, but they aren't posting on this board, that's for sure. i know of several people in particular (gojets pilots/former pilots) who know exactly how gojets was created and what it means in the overall scheme of things, and you would never hear them defending things. they knew it was bad, and did it anyway. i at least give them respect for not going around lying about stuff. for people at gojets now, who have been there say less than a couple years, to go around spouting this nonsense about how the company was created, and defending the whole process of screwing over tsa pilots, is just disgusting. there's no other way to describe it.
do you seriously think that everyone outside of gojets who continually disparages gojets and the people that work there all have it "wrong", that we don't know what we're talking about? wouldn't that be a bizarre coincidence? that the people that work at a company that's only been around for a few years know "the truth", but the people outside the company, who were in the industry or even at trans states (especially those of us there at the time), don't know anything? do you really think it works that way? at some point, an intelligent person, at least inside themselves, would have to admit that "wow, i guess maybe i have been told something that isn't quite the truth about how this company was started". maybe you admit that to yourself and not to people on this board. i'll never know.
ignorance is sad. and i'm not insulting you. i'm just saying you are clearly ignorant about how gojets was started and why the way trans states management did it was very bad. it's not your fault, necessarily. you weren't there. you don't know. you've never heard the truth (you're sure not going to hear it from inside the company, even from the people who were there when it happened). but to go around, in a clear position of ignorance, defending the very things you know nothing about...that is your fault.
09-08-2009, 06:53 AM
#87
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: A220 CA
Posts: 607
It was never tsa flying to begin with. It was ua flying contracted to gojet, the airline formed to fly more than 50 seats. Hulas is only obligated to the contract, not to the pilots. If you don't want to have seperate senioirty lists, all the while rejecting managment propsals 3 times for a single list, then have an airtight contract. Who's fault is that?
09-08-2009, 07:24 AM
#88
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: CRJ-200 First Officer
Posts: 262
But the pilots dont hinder negotiations. What hinders negotiations is the fact that tsa only flys 50 seaters. Something which will be useless in a while. That decision was made in 2005 by TSA MEC and the pilots. Virtually every pilot group has had to give something, MESA, RAH, eagle etc to join lists to get to the bigger planes. Everyone expect for TSA. A year later in 2006 or whenever the negs started it would have been quicker to get something with the bigger crj7s and the new flying on property, with Hulas a little more happy with his pilots since they cooperated with the Gojet certificate...
I mean is it that surprising that it has taken this long to get something better than the current TSA contract, arguably one of the worst, while Gojet, even Mesa did in less than 2 years? Who are they kidding with the BS? Management hates your guts. You need to give in order to receive.
I mean is it that surprising that it has taken this long to get something better than the current TSA contract, arguably one of the worst, while Gojet, even Mesa did in less than 2 years? Who are they kidding with the BS? Management hates your guts. You need to give in order to receive.
Why do we need to give in to receive? That's a terrible attitude to have. I'd bet if you were an Amerijet pilot you'd be willing to give on pay in order to get bathrooms on board. "You need to give in order to receive," right?
Is it acceptable to you that as an FO at GoJet you'll never make more than me after my 2nd year at ASA and that it will take you twice as long to reach that pay rate? Is it acceptable that you'll never have the work rules I do? Did you enjoy having to pay for your hotels during training? Do you like getting dumped on by your management?
09-08-2009, 08:32 AM
#89
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
It's not that bad.
09-08-2009, 08:35 AM
#90
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
since i was there, and you were not, let me just say that 1) you obviously have never read the trans states contract, and 2) because of 1 and the fact that you weren't there, you don't understand why what happened was bad.
i guess i wouldn't feel quite so bad if someone who was at gojets actually knew what happened back when the company was started. well, i'm sure a few gojets people do, but they aren't posting on this board, that's for sure. i know of several people in particular (gojets pilots/former pilots) who know exactly how gojets was created and what it means in the overall scheme of things, and you would never hear them defending things. they knew it was bad, and did it anyway. i at least give them respect for not going around lying about stuff. for people at gojets now, who have been there say less than a couple years, to go around spouting this nonsense about how the company was created, and defending the whole process of screwing over tsa pilots, is just disgusting. there's no other way to describe it.
do you seriously think that everyone outside of gojets who continually disparages gojets and the people that work there all have it "wrong", that we don't know what we're talking about? wouldn't that be a bizarre coincidence? that the people that work at a company that's only been around for a few years know "the truth", but the people outside the company, who were in the industry or even at trans states (especially those of us there at the time), don't know anything? do you really think it works that way? at some point, an intelligent person, at least inside themselves, would have to admit that "wow, i guess maybe i have been told something that isn't quite the truth about how this company was started". maybe you admit that to yourself and not to people on this board. i'll never know.
ignorance is sad. and i'm not insulting you. i'm just saying you are clearly ignorant about how gojets was started and why the way trans states management did it was very bad. it's not your fault, necessarily. you weren't there. you don't know. you've never heard the truth (you're sure not going to hear it from inside the company, even from the people who were there when it happened). but to go around, in a clear position of ignorance, defending the very things you know nothing about...that is your fault.
i guess i wouldn't feel quite so bad if someone who was at gojets actually knew what happened back when the company was started. well, i'm sure a few gojets people do, but they aren't posting on this board, that's for sure. i know of several people in particular (gojets pilots/former pilots) who know exactly how gojets was created and what it means in the overall scheme of things, and you would never hear them defending things. they knew it was bad, and did it anyway. i at least give them respect for not going around lying about stuff. for people at gojets now, who have been there say less than a couple years, to go around spouting this nonsense about how the company was created, and defending the whole process of screwing over tsa pilots, is just disgusting. there's no other way to describe it.
do you seriously think that everyone outside of gojets who continually disparages gojets and the people that work there all have it "wrong", that we don't know what we're talking about? wouldn't that be a bizarre coincidence? that the people that work at a company that's only been around for a few years know "the truth", but the people outside the company, who were in the industry or even at trans states (especially those of us there at the time), don't know anything? do you really think it works that way? at some point, an intelligent person, at least inside themselves, would have to admit that "wow, i guess maybe i have been told something that isn't quite the truth about how this company was started". maybe you admit that to yourself and not to people on this board. i'll never know.
ignorance is sad. and i'm not insulting you. i'm just saying you are clearly ignorant about how gojets was started and why the way trans states management did it was very bad. it's not your fault, necessarily. you weren't there. you don't know. you've never heard the truth (you're sure not going to hear it from inside the company, even from the people who were there when it happened). but to go around, in a clear position of ignorance, defending the very things you know nothing about...that is your fault.
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