Purpleanga

Again, it's a different market. Plus I don't think UK or even Europe maybe has tens of thousands of qualified commercial pilots.

Blueskies21

It boils down to right and wrong. Each of us can only control our own actions. I've said it a thousand times but I'll say it one more, if no one was willing to undercut their fellow pilots and go to gojet then Hulas would have had no other choice then offer TSA one list.

Each of us is RESPONSIBLE for our own choices. I can't prevent you from going to Gojet, but I can say for myself that I think it's WRONG. Will other people say " Sure it may be wrong but I'll get mine and get out" maybe they will, I can't control that, but I will not accept that someone has to take a job at gojet because if they didn't someone else would. If you take a job at Gojet, you are RESPONSIBLE for that. Whatever karma that might bring you or whatever disdain other pilots may hold you in, that was the choice you made by CHOOSING your own goals ahead of everyone else.

In a vaster sense this is what's wrong with where we've let our society go, people used to do things for good and decent reasons, now they're concerned with me me me.... At the end of the day to better this career we need people to act with INTEGRITY. I can't prevent people from going to gojet, and I can't promise everyone in an industry will act in a way that will better the industry, but I can do my best knowing many others are doing their best too and hold disdain for those that refuse to help us.

AirWillie

Well in the real world.... but also he did offer a single list. But my question is why does it matter, it's in the PAST. It's all water under the bridge now.

Blueskies21

Lots of things are in the past, that doesn't make them less wrong. Here's an extreme example, the holocaust is in the past and yet they're still tracking guards from the concentration camps across the world and returning 80 year old men to stand trial for crimes they committed in their 20's so I guess in some cases we understand that things in the past which were WRONG remain wrong in the future. No I'm not saying the creation of Gojet compares to the evils of the holocaust... I picked an extreme example to emphasize my point. Wrong is Wrong no matter how much time has past.

AirWillie

Yea talk about undercutting.... standard 66 seat pay and industry contract. It could be better but but no one is complaining right now. That's the best a 2 year old airline could do. Better than some 25 year old ALPA carriers wouldn't you say?

We both know that I didn't take your job since it was never your job in the first place, were you displaced out of a gojet RJ because of me? And no one is going to ask you for permission to go to gojet since it's not scab and it's nothing but a past seniority list feud that not even alpa cares about, read 1 to 45 post of this tread... The only way I can take your job is if TSA strikes and I replace you.

I love how convenient it is to blame the furlough of TSA on Gojet. You got furloughed because of an incompetent management that borrowed almost half a fleet that could be taken away with no conditions by AMR. Yes you could have had gojet flying to go into. BUT YOU DONT! That is not our fault. Job security over anything else.

The irony is that the single list was turned down because of lack of job security. More flying = lack of job security??? It wasn't about what was fair, it was about taking it all or nothing in 2005 because of the hatred towards management. In retrospect, in 2005 the importance of having 50+ seaters was probably not really cared about much. But there is no other pilot group that has turned down growth, especially one that could mean job security over eventual demise only because of some potential j31 displacements which were on their way out anyways?!?!. You decide in 2010 if it was worth it, no use in flaming on.

AirWillie

Well that's a good example comparing Gojet to Nazis. So are Germans today bad because of the Germans in 1946? No one is disputing that what happened sucked. The problem was how it was handled, secure the flying.

Blueskies21

If the germans had kept doing things the way they had done, then yes they would. If Gojet were to merge seniority lists with TSA then I guess they would recieve the same understanding that post war germans do. However the guilty Nazi guards or Gojetters premerger would still be guilty. I wasn't really trying to compare those two, but it seems you need an extreme example to grasp concepts.

The good news is if Gojet merged with TSA then it would probably be difficult for anyone to tell who was an original Gojetter and who was originally TSA. Much is the case with Freedom A-listers (see original gojetters) and current Freedom pilots

AirWillie

The original gojetters, that came to get ahead in seniority in 05 while they still had a job elsewhere are gone, or are lifers anyways too old to move.

250 or point 65

1) Please quit it with the "industry standard". Your contract is not industry standard, it is well below standard. Not that it matter, because, once again, you don't have a union to back it up, so the contract means nothing.

2) The best a 2 year old airline could do? There are multiple airlines who have been in contract negotiations for OVER 2 years trying to fight to raise the bar. Of course, theres really no point in negotiating when you only have one party at the table...even if they are sitting on opposite sides.

You know we're not really all that far from this happening, and we all know you guys park at the Hilton.


Your history is so far skewed by what management tells you. NEVER, EVER EVER, was a single list turned down. A bogus TA was turned down. Just because it included a single list does not mean that TSA pilots turned down a single list. TSA pilots turned down a completely bogus contract. It was not because they hated management, it was because they were not going to be compensated fairly.

Lets suppose that Hulas came to 618 and said that United wanted you guys to fly A320's for them. (I guess we'd also have to suppose that 618 represented pilots instead of management) HK says, we're going to pay you your CR7 rates to do that. Would you guys take it?

I mean, I think we all know the answer, but I think we also all know what the right answer is.

AirWillie

LOL Well see what happens next time.