Letter from a gojets pilot
09-09-2009, 07:55 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: CRJ-200 First Officer
Posts: 262
FlyASA, may I ask how long you been at ASA? How long will it take you to upgrade? How long will it take you to reach 1000 turbine PIC to just check off a silly requirement at some majors?
Among many reasons why I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about GoJet is that reason alone - regionals for damn near EVERYBODY are a stepping stone - it's all a rat race to get to a major for a big majority of regional pilots. So this whole "woohoo... save the profession by bashing GoJet" is a bunch of bullshiite.
This ENTIRE industry needs a MAJOR overhaul, and I mean Chip Foose overhaul because it is just that big of a turd right now. The friggin' engine is sputtering and catches on fire, the transmission is gone, a/c isn't working, the alternator is dead, all seals and hoses have about had it, and you people are b*tching about a chip in the paint. Unreal...
Among many reasons why I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about GoJet is that reason alone - regionals for damn near EVERYBODY are a stepping stone - it's all a rat race to get to a major for a big majority of regional pilots. So this whole "woohoo... save the profession by bashing GoJet" is a bunch of bullshiite.
This ENTIRE industry needs a MAJOR overhaul, and I mean Chip Foose overhaul because it is just that big of a turd right now. The friggin' engine is sputtering and catches on fire, the transmission is gone, a/c isn't working, the alternator is dead, all seals and hoses have about had it, and you people are b*tching about a chip in the paint. Unreal...
I'll have to wait a couple of extra years to upgrade at ASA, I knew it wasn't going to be the fastest upgrade when I went there but that didn't change my mind.
I agree that the regionals are a stepping stone, I thought I made that very clear in a couple of my posts. I also agree that the industry needs to have a major overhaul. I have a few points to make:
1. A major overhaul is simply a pipe dream, the cards are stacked against us because of the RLA and the power management has in BK courts. The best we can do is encourage our brother and sister pilots at the majors to protect scope and do our part by raising our QOL and pay at the regionals. We should try and blur the line between major and regional contracts by continually trying to raise the regional's pay and QOL.
2. Going to one of the lowest paid regionals doesn't help us improve the industry. It undercuts everyone else trying to make the regionals better and protect scope at the majors. Cost is the only thing management cares about and they will continue to grow the cheapest regionals at the expense of mainline and the more expensive regionals. That major pilot job you are seeking will simply disappear and be replaced by the cheapest flying management can find. This is just like the Walmart shopper that buys nothing but cheap Chinese goods and then wonders why his manufacturing job is outsourced to China.
3. Flying is a 35-45 year career depending on when you are fortunate enough to get in. Is it worth eroding the profession and contributing to the disappearance of the good major jobs to gain 1-2 years with the quick upgrade at a place like GoJet? If yes is your answer than you are contributing to the downward slippery slope we are now experiencing. It is better for all of us to dig in and say enough is enough and draw a line in the sand.
09-09-2009, 08:31 AM
#113
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,773
I'll have to wait a couple of extra years to upgrade at ASA, I knew it wasn't going to be the fastest upgrade when I went there but that didn't change my mind.
I agree that the regionals are a stepping stone, I thought I made that very clear in a couple of my posts. I also agree that the industry needs to have a major overhaul. I have a few points to make:
1. A major overhaul is simply a pipe dream, the cards are stacked against us because of the RLA and the power management has in BK courts. The best we can do is encourage our brother and sister pilots at the majors to protect scope and do our part by raising our QOL and pay at the regionals. We should try and blur the line between major and regional contracts by continually trying to raise the regional's pay and QOL.
2. Going to one of the lowest paid regionals doesn't help us improve the industry. It undercuts everyone else trying to make the regionals better and protect scope at the majors. Cost is the only thing management cares about and they will continue to grow the cheapest regionals at the expense of mainline and the more expensive regionals. That major pilot job you are seeking will simply disappear and be replaced by the cheapest flying management can find. This is just like the Walmart shopper that buys nothing but cheap Chinese goods and then wonders why his manufacturing job is outsourced to China.
3. Flying is a 35-45 year career depending on when you are fortunate enough to get in. Is it worth eroding the profession and contributing to the disappearance of the good major jobs to gain 1-2 years with the quick upgrade at a place like GoJet? If yes is your answer than you are contributing to the downward slippery slope we are now experiencing. It is better for all of us to dig in and say enough is enough and draw a line in the sand.
I agree that the regionals are a stepping stone, I thought I made that very clear in a couple of my posts. I also agree that the industry needs to have a major overhaul. I have a few points to make:
1. A major overhaul is simply a pipe dream, the cards are stacked against us because of the RLA and the power management has in BK courts. The best we can do is encourage our brother and sister pilots at the majors to protect scope and do our part by raising our QOL and pay at the regionals. We should try and blur the line between major and regional contracts by continually trying to raise the regional's pay and QOL.
2. Going to one of the lowest paid regionals doesn't help us improve the industry. It undercuts everyone else trying to make the regionals better and protect scope at the majors. Cost is the only thing management cares about and they will continue to grow the cheapest regionals at the expense of mainline and the more expensive regionals. That major pilot job you are seeking will simply disappear and be replaced by the cheapest flying management can find. This is just like the Walmart shopper that buys nothing but cheap Chinese goods and then wonders why his manufacturing job is outsourced to China.
3. Flying is a 35-45 year career depending on when you are fortunate enough to get in. Is it worth eroding the profession and contributing to the disappearance of the good major jobs to gain 1-2 years with the quick upgrade at a place like GoJet? If yes is your answer than you are contributing to the downward slippery slope we are now experiencing. It is better for all of us to dig in and say enough is enough and draw a line in the sand.
I'll just say this - US airline pilots, sad to say, aren't "professionals" per se. They are union flunkies. When a senior 757 captain whose airline suddenly shuts down has to start over making $22/hour despite decades of experience... well, let's just say I don't consider that industry or rather that part of the industry as professional.
Talking about a line in the sand? Again, I'm sorry, but you don't have the guts to actually do anything about it. Why? Because if the management calls you on it... you stand to lose seniority and have to start over again making the rock bottom dollar which you know you aren't prepared to do - your entire time spent at your current airline will be for nothing. The management knows this, and sadly, you do too... and that's why you're taking it up the keister.
09-09-2009, 08:52 AM
#114
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Upper lip.
Posts: 44
To Airwillie and company, this is the story of what happened:
In late 2003, Trans States Airlines management indicated their desire to acquire and operate large regional jet aircraft. In early 2004, the Trans States MEC and TSA management began negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft (i.e. those in excess of 64 seats). Despite months of negotiations, the TSA MEC was unable to reach an agreement on the substandard pay scales Trans States management demanded. As a result, in early fall of 2004 negotiations had diffused.
In October 2004, Trans States Airlines’ President announced a need to create another airline to operate large regional jet aircraft, citing the Allied Pilots Association (APA – American Airlines) scope language restricting Trans States Airlines from operating aircraft larger than 50 seats. This airline, GoJet, would be controlled by the newly created Trans States Holdings1. While the APA scope restrictions did exist, that limitation did not prevent two airlines with independent operating certificates from operating with one seniority list or under a single collective bargaining agreement.
Meanwhile, four TSA management pilots who were hired as GoJet pilots, signed authorization cards stating they wished to be represented by the Teamsters, and GoJet management secretly signed on to the bogus scheme. ALPA challenged this attempt with the National Mediation Board, claiming that the Teamsters could not be the bargaining representative of GoJet since GoJet had not yet obtained an operating certificate. ALPA’s challenge was upheld by the NMB. The Trans States MEC immediately requested a meeting with the President of Trans States Airlines, who, by no coincidence, would also be the President of GoJet Airlines. Only after informational picketing, a pilot rally at St. Louis and a letter written by then ALPA President Duane Woerth to TSA CEO Hulas Kanodia, was the President of TSA finally convinced to meet and negotiate with the TSA MEC.
Negotiations began in the summer of 2005. Throughout the negotiations, TSA took a take-it-or-leave-it approach. Eventually in late summer 20052 TSA management put their last, best proposal on the table. Their LOA proposal contained Single Carrier language, a Holding Company Letter (binding TSH to TSA CBA), merged seniority list, substandard 70/90 seat pay scales, and a contract extension of 4 years3. Unfortunately, the GoJet LOA, in the opinion of many TSA pilots, lacked true job security protection. Management’s LOA prevented the bumping of those pilots already at GoJet from their equipment in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. This was particularly sensitive to the J41 fleet, which had already been scheduled to be removed from service by mid 2006. ALPA had tried to remedy this inequity through an additional proposal that protected the Trans States pilots, but TSA management was not interested. The TSA MEC conducted a series of road shows that outlined what management’s LOA did and didn’t provide in terms of wages, duration and scope. The pilots of Trans States Airlines voted down the proposal 3 to 1 in what was clearly a very emotional vote.
The Trans States MEC re-polled the pilots to determine why the vote failed and also attempted to resume negotiations, but Trans States management refused despite our best efforts to re-engage. ALPA also filed a petition with the NMB to recognize Trans States and GoJet as a single carrier. The NMB received briefs from the Company and ALPA. Primarily because the Company had separated the labor relations functions of TSA and GoJet, the NMB denied ALPA’s single carrier petition and Teamsters (IBT local 618) remained as the representational party. Trans States’ MEC also filed a Section 1 scope violation grievance, which remains pending today. The TSA CBA states that the Company shall not create or acquire an alter-ego to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement5. Although ALPA lost the Single Carrier petition, a different standard will be used by an arbitrator on whether TSA violated that portion of the CBA.
Ex-TSA Pilots
During the course of the GoJet negotiations in 2004 and 2005, two TSA pilots who had become Flight Managers4 assisted in the creation and operation of GoJet. These flight managers would later actively try to prevent ALPA from becoming the labor representation unit at GoJet by signing authorization cards with two others in an attempt to place IBT 618 on property and block any attempt by pilots to choose ALPA. In early 2005, these same pilots were directly involved with other senior TSA management personnel in union busting tactics that resulted in the wrongful termination of five union officers in a direct attempt to undermine the TSA MEC and ALPA.
In late 2005, after the LOA vote failed, TSA management began offering GoJet jobs to TSA pilots by enticing them with up to five years’ longevity. At the time, TSA pilots were actively demonstrating that GoJet flying belonged to and should be flown by TSA pilots on the TSA Seniority List. Only a few pilots from TSA rank and file went to GoJet, but their decision to do so at the expense of our campaign to unify these companies left deep scars and set off the beginning of a pilot war. Most of the ex-TSA pilots who went to GoJet were made check airmen and held IBT shop steward positions. Even members of IBT’s Airline Division Local 747 condemned the actions of IBT 618 to unionize this group while ALPA was trying to resolve the issues. TSA pilots wore “Alter EGoJet” badge backers in a visual display of their discontent, while ALPA filed a grievance5 over the alter-ego carrier (a label which remains with GoJet today).
Here's the thing, I obviously don't agree with the creation of GoJet. You have to look at the source of this issue, however. TSA(H) managment and owner created these circumstances. They could have decided to start a new certificate and insist on pursuing this in an ethical way that would benefit both the employees that earned them the money to make this happen in the first place, and to the further success of the company as a whole. Pointing fingers at pilots, at each other, at the industry only serves to direct attention from the real problem, greedy managers that put our industry in this situation in the first place. That is what it all boils down to, Greed.
When I started at TSA, things weren't really that bad. There was growth, people were positive, etc. This whole GoJet issue has brought a dark shadow into the lives of everyone involved with TSA, and it's been 4 years. I wouldn't wish the emotional heartache and pain that this has caused all the families at TSA on anyone, not even those pilots at GoJet. The underlying theme at TSA(H) is Greed. Those at GoJet might not realize it now, but come time for their next round of negotiations, this will become apparent pretty quick. There is a long history to support the difficult managment-labor relationship at TSA....and this whole fiasco only serves to support that. The more time we spend beating each other up, the more TSA(H) sits back, earns money, and laughs at just how successfully they've pinned the pilots against each other. If we are really interested in success in having a mutually beneficial experience at TSA(H), we're going to have to work together. Without that, the division will be the end of this company, which may be for the best.
In late 2003, Trans States Airlines management indicated their desire to acquire and operate large regional jet aircraft. In early 2004, the Trans States MEC and TSA management began negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft (i.e. those in excess of 64 seats). Despite months of negotiations, the TSA MEC was unable to reach an agreement on the substandard pay scales Trans States management demanded. As a result, in early fall of 2004 negotiations had diffused.
In October 2004, Trans States Airlines’ President announced a need to create another airline to operate large regional jet aircraft, citing the Allied Pilots Association (APA – American Airlines) scope language restricting Trans States Airlines from operating aircraft larger than 50 seats. This airline, GoJet, would be controlled by the newly created Trans States Holdings1. While the APA scope restrictions did exist, that limitation did not prevent two airlines with independent operating certificates from operating with one seniority list or under a single collective bargaining agreement.
Meanwhile, four TSA management pilots who were hired as GoJet pilots, signed authorization cards stating they wished to be represented by the Teamsters, and GoJet management secretly signed on to the bogus scheme. ALPA challenged this attempt with the National Mediation Board, claiming that the Teamsters could not be the bargaining representative of GoJet since GoJet had not yet obtained an operating certificate. ALPA’s challenge was upheld by the NMB. The Trans States MEC immediately requested a meeting with the President of Trans States Airlines, who, by no coincidence, would also be the President of GoJet Airlines. Only after informational picketing, a pilot rally at St. Louis and a letter written by then ALPA President Duane Woerth to TSA CEO Hulas Kanodia, was the President of TSA finally convinced to meet and negotiate with the TSA MEC.
Negotiations began in the summer of 2005. Throughout the negotiations, TSA took a take-it-or-leave-it approach. Eventually in late summer 20052 TSA management put their last, best proposal on the table. Their LOA proposal contained Single Carrier language, a Holding Company Letter (binding TSH to TSA CBA), merged seniority list, substandard 70/90 seat pay scales, and a contract extension of 4 years3. Unfortunately, the GoJet LOA, in the opinion of many TSA pilots, lacked true job security protection. Management’s LOA prevented the bumping of those pilots already at GoJet from their equipment in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. This was particularly sensitive to the J41 fleet, which had already been scheduled to be removed from service by mid 2006. ALPA had tried to remedy this inequity through an additional proposal that protected the Trans States pilots, but TSA management was not interested. The TSA MEC conducted a series of road shows that outlined what management’s LOA did and didn’t provide in terms of wages, duration and scope. The pilots of Trans States Airlines voted down the proposal 3 to 1 in what was clearly a very emotional vote.
The Trans States MEC re-polled the pilots to determine why the vote failed and also attempted to resume negotiations, but Trans States management refused despite our best efforts to re-engage. ALPA also filed a petition with the NMB to recognize Trans States and GoJet as a single carrier. The NMB received briefs from the Company and ALPA. Primarily because the Company had separated the labor relations functions of TSA and GoJet, the NMB denied ALPA’s single carrier petition and Teamsters (IBT local 618) remained as the representational party. Trans States’ MEC also filed a Section 1 scope violation grievance, which remains pending today. The TSA CBA states that the Company shall not create or acquire an alter-ego to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement5. Although ALPA lost the Single Carrier petition, a different standard will be used by an arbitrator on whether TSA violated that portion of the CBA.
Ex-TSA Pilots
During the course of the GoJet negotiations in 2004 and 2005, two TSA pilots who had become Flight Managers4 assisted in the creation and operation of GoJet. These flight managers would later actively try to prevent ALPA from becoming the labor representation unit at GoJet by signing authorization cards with two others in an attempt to place IBT 618 on property and block any attempt by pilots to choose ALPA. In early 2005, these same pilots were directly involved with other senior TSA management personnel in union busting tactics that resulted in the wrongful termination of five union officers in a direct attempt to undermine the TSA MEC and ALPA.
In late 2005, after the LOA vote failed, TSA management began offering GoJet jobs to TSA pilots by enticing them with up to five years’ longevity. At the time, TSA pilots were actively demonstrating that GoJet flying belonged to and should be flown by TSA pilots on the TSA Seniority List. Only a few pilots from TSA rank and file went to GoJet, but their decision to do so at the expense of our campaign to unify these companies left deep scars and set off the beginning of a pilot war. Most of the ex-TSA pilots who went to GoJet were made check airmen and held IBT shop steward positions. Even members of IBT’s Airline Division Local 747 condemned the actions of IBT 618 to unionize this group while ALPA was trying to resolve the issues. TSA pilots wore “Alter EGoJet” badge backers in a visual display of their discontent, while ALPA filed a grievance5 over the alter-ego carrier (a label which remains with GoJet today).
Here's the thing, I obviously don't agree with the creation of GoJet. You have to look at the source of this issue, however. TSA(H) managment and owner created these circumstances. They could have decided to start a new certificate and insist on pursuing this in an ethical way that would benefit both the employees that earned them the money to make this happen in the first place, and to the further success of the company as a whole. Pointing fingers at pilots, at each other, at the industry only serves to direct attention from the real problem, greedy managers that put our industry in this situation in the first place. That is what it all boils down to, Greed.
When I started at TSA, things weren't really that bad. There was growth, people were positive, etc. This whole GoJet issue has brought a dark shadow into the lives of everyone involved with TSA, and it's been 4 years. I wouldn't wish the emotional heartache and pain that this has caused all the families at TSA on anyone, not even those pilots at GoJet. The underlying theme at TSA(H) is Greed. Those at GoJet might not realize it now, but come time for their next round of negotiations, this will become apparent pretty quick. There is a long history to support the difficult managment-labor relationship at TSA....and this whole fiasco only serves to support that. The more time we spend beating each other up, the more TSA(H) sits back, earns money, and laughs at just how successfully they've pinned the pilots against each other. If we are really interested in success in having a mutually beneficial experience at TSA(H), we're going to have to work together. Without that, the division will be the end of this company, which may be for the best.
09-09-2009, 09:06 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: CRJ-200 First Officer
Posts: 262
What profession? You think a professional takes 80% paycut if he/she starts over at a different company?
I'll just say this - US airline pilots, sad to say, aren't "professionals" per se. They are union flunkies. When a senior 757 captain whose airline suddenly shuts down has to start over making $22/hour despite decades of experience... well, let's just say I don't consider that industry or rather that part of the industry as professional.
Talking about a line in the sand? Again, I'm sorry, but you don't have the guts to actually do anything about it. Why? Because if the management calls you on it... you stand to lose seniority and have to start over again making the rock bottom dollar which you know you aren't prepared to do - your entire time spent at your current airline will be for nothing. The management knows this, and sadly, you do too... and that's why you're taking it up the keister.
I'll just say this - US airline pilots, sad to say, aren't "professionals" per se. They are union flunkies. When a senior 757 captain whose airline suddenly shuts down has to start over making $22/hour despite decades of experience... well, let's just say I don't consider that industry or rather that part of the industry as professional.
Talking about a line in the sand? Again, I'm sorry, but you don't have the guts to actually do anything about it. Why? Because if the management calls you on it... you stand to lose seniority and have to start over again making the rock bottom dollar which you know you aren't prepared to do - your entire time spent at your current airline will be for nothing. The management knows this, and sadly, you do too... and that's why you're taking it up the keister.
I'm taking it up the keister by working at ASA instead of GoJet? By that logic I guess someone who goes to Southwest is taking it up the keister by not going to Spirit or Virgin America.
Going to GoJet increases the chance that I eventually lose my seniority and have to start all over because managment wants to outsource the major job to GoJet. Look at the expansion of United Express for proof of that. If we want to stop the spread of regionals we all need to work towards getting better contracts and we need to remind our brothers and sisters at the majors to protect and tighten scope. If regionals become more expensive they'll stop growing, that is simple economics.
A frog that is dropped into a boiling pot of water jumps out. A frog that is placed in cold water that is slowly heated to a boil sits there and dies. We are currently the frog being slowly boiled. It's time we do what we can to extiguish the flame management has lit under us. That means fighting for better contracts, protecting scope, and not working for the lowest paid regional we can find just for the quick upgrade.
It isn't easy because we are disadvantaged but nothing worth fighting for is ever easy. Unfortunately we don't have the ability to take aggressive action against management because of the RLA but that doesn't mean that we don't have the courage or guts to take any action. Fighting for better contracts, protecting scope, and turning down jobs at low budget places are all things we can do to better the profession one step at a time. GoJet represents steps backwards.
Going to GoJet tells management that they can further lower QOL and wages. If past experience tells us anything, TSA/GoJet management will try and create a new certificate to undercut GoJet when/if the opportunity arrises for bigger RJ flying. I can't even imagine how bad that place will be to work, but "Hey it's ok it is only a stepping stone to something better."
Meanwhile those bigger RJs replace more flying at UA and that elusive job at the majors will disappear as the temperature rises in the pot. When do we decide to work to try and turn down the heat? When GoJet II or III is flying 757s and 767s for $23 an hour?
09-09-2009, 09:23 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
And here is the problem with arguing with AirWillie. We make valid points and he turns to personal attacks and rationalization.
You know, I will never agree with they guys who went to gojet for any reason, but at least many of them have a reason. It seems that you're only rationalization is resignation.
"Every regional sucks, so it doesn't matter where we work"
You know, I will never agree with they guys who went to gojet for any reason, but at least many of them have a reason. It seems that you're only rationalization is resignation.
"Every regional sucks, so it doesn't matter where we work"
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time. Nobody is resigning, a lot of us the last year have been displaced because of a furlough or layoff. We didn't ask to come here, but there's no one that would actually work at wal mart(even flying a 737 in Kolkata) instead of coming here because a of a seniority list feud that happened in 2005 through no fault of their own that no one can do anything about. Respectfully disagree.
09-09-2009, 09:39 AM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
.
Here's the thing, I obviously don't agree with the creation of GoJet. You have to look at the source of this issue, however. TSA(H) managment and owner created these circumstances. They could have decided to start a new certificate and insist on pursuing this in an ethical way that would benefit both the employees that earned them the money to make this happen in the first place, and to the further success of the company as a whole. Pointing fingers at pilots, at each other, at the industry only serves to direct attention from the real problem, greedy managers that put our industry in this situation in the first place. That is what it all boils down to, Greed.
When I started at TSA, things weren't really that bad. There was growth, people were positive, etc. This whole GoJet issue has brought a dark shadow into the lives of everyone involved with TSA, and it's been 4 years. I wouldn't wish the emotional heartache and pain that this has caused all the families at TSA on anyone, not even those pilots at GoJet. The underlying theme at TSA(H) is Greed. Those at GoJet might not realize it now, but come time for their next round of negotiations, this will become apparent pretty quick. There is a long history to support the difficult managment-labor relationship at TSA....and this whole fiasco only serves to support that. The more time we spend beating each other up, the more TSA(H) sits back, earns money, and laughs at just how successfully they've pinned the pilots against each other. If we are really interested in success in having a mutually beneficial experience at TSA(H), we're going to have to work together. Without that, the division will be the end of this company, which may be for the best.
Here's the thing, I obviously don't agree with the creation of GoJet. You have to look at the source of this issue, however. TSA(H) managment and owner created these circumstances. They could have decided to start a new certificate and insist on pursuing this in an ethical way that would benefit both the employees that earned them the money to make this happen in the first place, and to the further success of the company as a whole. Pointing fingers at pilots, at each other, at the industry only serves to direct attention from the real problem, greedy managers that put our industry in this situation in the first place. That is what it all boils down to, Greed.
When I started at TSA, things weren't really that bad. There was growth, people were positive, etc. This whole GoJet issue has brought a dark shadow into the lives of everyone involved with TSA, and it's been 4 years. I wouldn't wish the emotional heartache and pain that this has caused all the families at TSA on anyone, not even those pilots at GoJet. The underlying theme at TSA(H) is Greed. Those at GoJet might not realize it now, but come time for their next round of negotiations, this will become apparent pretty quick. There is a long history to support the difficult managment-labor relationship at TSA....and this whole fiasco only serves to support that. The more time we spend beating each other up, the more TSA(H) sits back, earns money, and laughs at just how successfully they've pinned the pilots against each other. If we are really interested in success in having a mutually beneficial experience at TSA(H), we're going to have to work together. Without that, the division will be the end of this company, which may be for the best.
We'll thanks for that realistic write up, here is the difference between an actual TSA pilot that has an interest in solving the issue vs someone in the sidelines that has no interest other than to flame away.
09-09-2009, 09:58 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,109
And yet, after seeing the start of gojets chronicled like that (Which you have seen before on here), you can still claim that it's OK to work there. Ostensibly because "It's not an alter ego, it was created because TSA couldn't fly 70 seaters!!!" It's been said/proven MANY times that that was not the reason gojets exists the way it does now. So, how can you keep justifying it???
09-09-2009, 10:38 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 483
I wouldn't call comparing gojet with "pimp my ride" as valid points. Coming from someone that supposedly tried to become a gojet pilot, now that he didn't get in because he was kicked out of the interview, it's ok to bash go jetss.
We didn't ask to come here, but there's no one that would actually work at wal mart(even flying a 737 in Kolkata) instead of coming here because a of a seniority list feud that happened in 2005 through no fault of their own that no one can do anything about.
We didn't ask to come here, but there's no one that would actually work at wal mart(even flying a 737 in Kolkata) instead of coming here because a of a seniority list feud that happened in 2005 through no fault of their own that no one can do anything about.
Also, your attitude that nobody can do anything about what happened in 2005 is the problem. Maybe you've heard the story about the person throwing washed up starfish back into the ocean.
Last edited by Copperhed51; 09-09-2009 at 05:05 PM.
09-09-2009, 10:39 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Frenchy plane/ Left
Posts: 338
So, why didn't the TSA pilots & ALPA appeal the NMB decision?? Talk about "rolling over" The TSA pilots & ALPA are a prime example. On a side note...if the pilots were so upset over the outcome why didn't they all just quit TSA & go some place else...you know..like "McDonalds" or the "Wal-Mart" to really make a stand and "raise the bar"you guys are always spouting about??
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
