Mesaba blamed for XJT stranding in RST
08-21-2009, 09:14 AM
#11
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,531
I wasn't one of the people who "crucified" the captain but this story doesn't change how I feel. It just moves some of the blame around. Like others have said its easy to monday night quarter back after all is said and done but the captain should have told the ground agents and the disptatchers what she was GOING to do. I would have listened to dispatch and the ramp people for maybe at the most 3 hours. After that its over. Time for PIC authority to come into play, hang up the phone, and get the people off the plane. Also some knowledge about how airports worked would have helped. Once an air terminal is closed there is no way out with out a badge or the police. So the terminal is sterile. They could have let the people roam free inside the airport because it is a secure area. I had the joy of doing this in COS once. You let them out. Tell them they cant have their checked bags till ground personell arrive and let them know once they go out side the gates they will not be allowed back to the plane.
The one good thing that has come out of this is that it has made it easier for the rest of us to get things done to avoid this mess in the future.
The one good thing that has come out of this is that it has made it easier for the rest of us to get things done to avoid this mess in the future.
08-21-2009, 09:35 AM
#12
Inverted
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: CL65 CA
Posts: 536
The thing missing from all of the quotes like this is...how would you have physically de-planed the passengers? XJT ERJ's are not equipped with stairs, and need external stairs or a jetway for people to get off. There are also no emergency slides. If ground handling refuses, now what? Have grandma jump 5 feet down in a thunderstorm...OSHA violation? Send the FO out to beat down a ramper and steal a belt loader?
08-21-2009, 09:36 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,982
The thing missing from all of the quotes like this is...how would you have physically de-planed the passengers? XJT ERJ's are not equipped with stairs, and need external stairs or a jetway for people to get off. There are also no emergency slides. If ground handling refuses, now what? Have grandma jump 5 feet down in a thunderstorm...OSHA violation? Send the FO out to beat down a ramper and steal a belt loader?
08-21-2009, 09:40 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 109
Either that, or I'd probably ask the fire department to help bring the people down.
08-21-2009, 09:54 AM
#15
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,531
There are several "creative" ways I've thought of getting people off the airplane...I'm just observing that most of the people criticizing the crew are CRJ drivers or people who think the ERJ is like a CRJ, and never considered that extra logistical hurdle. It was obvious from earlier comments last week that people thought we could "just let people off." If we could do that, then ya, my next call to Mesaba Ops would've been "You now have 47 pax on YOUR ramp."
08-21-2009, 09:57 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: EMB 145 FO
Posts: 425
The other options were:
1. Take off into severe weather.
2. Deplane with NO airstairs (risk injuries)
3. Deplane and have pax standing on a concrete ramp surrounded by metal poles in a lightning storm.
The crew did the right thing.
08-21-2009, 10:05 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
XJT has backed the crew this entire time. Our management has even gone so far as to say that we "can be proud of the actions of our crewmembers." It was only a matter of time before the whole story came out. The bad part about this is that the damage has already been done. The news media went off half cocked with only limited information and portrayed it as the whole story.
08-21-2009, 10:13 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 493
From the sounds of the tapes released, it seems as though Mesaba was trying to work with XJet. It's not as if they out right refused to help and were bullies about it. So... it sounds like there is even MORE to this story we don't know.
My FO's and I have discussed this issue many times and this was certainly a tough place to be. I think however, if I were in the same shoes, I would have rolled my proverbial sleeves up and gotten physically involved somehow. Perhaps jumping off the plane and going inside to talk face to face with the Mesaba people to solve the problem. Face time gets you much further than radio time. And before people start talking about how there are no air stairs on the ERJs... there weren't air stairs on the avro, which also was high enough to need slides. That didn't prevent me from jumping out to make things happen in the past. There is always a solution to every problem.
My FO's and I have discussed this issue many times and this was certainly a tough place to be. I think however, if I were in the same shoes, I would have rolled my proverbial sleeves up and gotten physically involved somehow. Perhaps jumping off the plane and going inside to talk face to face with the Mesaba people to solve the problem. Face time gets you much further than radio time. And before people start talking about how there are no air stairs on the ERJs... there weren't air stairs on the avro, which also was high enough to need slides. That didn't prevent me from jumping out to make things happen in the past. There is always a solution to every problem.
08-21-2009, 10:19 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
The thing missing from all of the quotes like this is...how would you have physically de-planed the passengers? XJT ERJ's are not equipped with stairs, and need external stairs or a jetway for people to get off. There are also no emergency slides. If ground handling refuses, now what? Have grandma jump 5 feet down in a thunderstorm...OSHA violation? Send the FO out to beat down a ramper and steal a belt loader?
08-21-2009, 10:21 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
From the sounds of the tapes released, it seems as though Mesaba was trying to work with XJet. It's not as if they out right refused to help and were bullies about it. So... it sounds like there is even MORE to this story we don't know.
My FO's and I have discussed this issue many times and this was certainly a tough place to be. I think however, if I were in the same shoes, I would have rolled my proverbial sleeves up and gotten physically involved somehow. Perhaps jumping off the plane and going inside to talk face to face with the Mesaba people to solve the problem. Face time gets you much further than radio time. And before people start talking about how there are no air stairs on the ERJs... there weren't air stairs on the avro, which also was high enough to need slides. That didn't prevent me from jumping out to make things happen in the past. There is always a solution to every problem.
My FO's and I have discussed this issue many times and this was certainly a tough place to be. I think however, if I were in the same shoes, I would have rolled my proverbial sleeves up and gotten physically involved somehow. Perhaps jumping off the plane and going inside to talk face to face with the Mesaba people to solve the problem. Face time gets you much further than radio time. And before people start talking about how there are no air stairs on the ERJs... there weren't air stairs on the avro, which also was high enough to need slides. That didn't prevent me from jumping out to make things happen in the past. There is always a solution to every problem.
Another key piece here is that Mesaba said that they "would not" allow our passengers into the facility without TSA's approval.
