Airdale

So you're a golf professional? Do you work for a company? Does that company undercut other golf companies by paying you a fraction of the golf industry salary? Does your company make you go golf instruct 4 straight days, for 13+hrs at a time, in 4 different states and cities, while providing you 8-10hrs of rest in between golf instructing lessons? Does your employer make you sit in the golf lounge for 3 1/2 hrs in between lessons, not getting paid, with no comfortable place to kick back and relax? Does your employer only give you two days off in between work weeks and make you commute on those days off because they don't pay you enough to relocate to the companies "base", which btw is closing next month?

Are other golf instructors paying for golf instructor school, and then 6 months of unpaid golf instructor time, just so they can take your job at less pay?

Get the point? Talk about golf all day long....but the hell with flying for a living. If I could make enough money doing something else, I'd be putting my CFI certificate to use, buy an airplane and actually ENJOY the flying.

Pansk

A full ride to a graduate program should do the trick.

SilkBra

Where the luck falls is an important thought. Many posts on here about people hating the career and how it is better on the other side. You do not see too many about people liking the career. If someone writes that they like the deal they have someone will bash them and where they work.

Luck is a part of it, but skill is important too. Every airline has its share of people that finally get called for upgrade and wash out of it because they did not prepare. You know some of those people are the ones on here complaining about the industry. Many of the successful ones are out playing golf or enjoying themselves on days off so you will not see too many posts out of these people. I and I am sure many others have watched others make very stupid decisions that you knew would come out wrong. Leaving a turbo prop regional that has an 8 month upgrade to go to Eagle to fly a jet. People did that. Now they complain. I know many that quit a turbo prop regional while in the captain seat before they had the 1000 PIC to go to the regional jet. DUMB! Everyone should know that if you agree to work somewhere after the hiring wave has been going for a while will not be as happy as the ones that got in the first few months of it. Those are the ones that complain the loudest on these boards.

I like the career and it has worked out for me so far. I upgraded in one year at a turbo prop regional and upgraded in a year at Allegiant well under the age of thirty and have been making over 100K for a few years now. Lots of days off and no overnights. A bunch of fools will bash me but consider you have many others that have done better than me that will not post here. Many got quick upgrades at SWA and Jetblue as well. My point is many of the posts are one sided on message boards. Every single airline is bashed. If Allegiant gets the pay rates beyond industry standard some fool will complain that they do not have wide bodies or first class seating. UPS is a garbage place to work because of the night flying. SWA is garbage because they just fly in the lower 48. You can not win in the eyes of the pilots on these boards.

SilkBra

Here is list of dumb stuff I see people do and you know these are the people that complain the loudest about how much the industry sucks:

-get a DUI/DWI
-get a second DUI/DWI
-don't study at all for a PC check
-don't prepare for upgrade training
-have 3 children before the age of 25 and while not even at a regional airline yet
-have 3 children while still working for a regional airline as an FO
-get 4 speeding tickets and wonder why an airline won't hire you
-have 4 speeding tickets and wonder why you can't get work while furloughed
-smoke and drink, constantly
-have tattoos on your forearms and wonder why your options are limited
-hit 250LBS and make no attempt to stop drinking and eating chips, then hit 3 bills and wonder why airlines will not hire you
-talk about how the industry sucks while in the airlines lobby while waiting to interview
-have no money saved, at all.
-don't take the ATP written even though your number is next to be called to upgrade at your regional airline
-find your way in the back of a police car
-marry a girl that couldn't make it through an interview at walmart
-show up to an interview that has a sim check and not be instrument current
-sexually harass a company employee
-violate rules at work, constantly
-have spelling errors on the resume you send to an airline
-notice that your airline is reporting losses for a while and buy a BMW and have another kid anyway.
-cheat on your wife that doesn't work but does know a good lawyer.

aviatorpr

what airline do you fly for and what is your seniority there?

bryris

This sounds like a dream. You are quite lucky, as you admitted. The fact that some get the carrot in the end, leads many many others to chase the carrot. For many, its futile. The bad part is, it has nothing to do with personal ambition or drive or motivation to excel. It is being in the right place at the right time and having shaken the right hands.

If you created the most challenging obstacle course you could imagine and pumped enough people into the entrance, some would make it through because the pendulums swung in just the right way to let them pass, etc.

Enjoy it! To make 100k at a captain on an MD80 at under 30 years old is amazing.

SilkBra

I agree with you mostly but I still think many are getting a very good deal but you do not hear from them on this site. No doubt, many TWA and Midwest guys totally got the shaft. Many of the ones that were prepared got on with Allegiant and other airlines over the years. In many cases furloughed pilots have a better deal at the new airline after a few years. Many USAir furloughs went to Jetblue and SWA and made out. Some of the more senior at Allegiant that live in base/are home every night are furloughed TWA.

Pilots have been losing "dream jobs" for years. It is not a big mystery that this can happen in the industry. You have to keep on it even when you are sitting comfortable. You have to keep up with whats going on in the industry, keep the log book updated, take one of the first upgrades when it presents itself. Keep renewing the CFI. I never understood how someone without any turbine PIC time would pass on an upgrade. I call that playing with fire.

I will disagree and say that drive does play a role in this game. How many captains treat the FO like crap and down the road need that FO to walk in their resume at another airline? You know it happens. Many have horrible networking abilities. How many pilots have you heard say that they would never want to be check airman? That is huge on the resume. I believe it was one of the boxes to check on the SWA application. Bad luck can and does happen but the prepared ones land on there feet. Allegiant is doing well now but I assume they will have trouble at some point and that I will lose my job. So, I keep the log book up to date, stay in touch with everyone, and keep an emergency fund in the bank. NFL players have to assume they will get injured each game, Doctors have to assume they will get sued, and business owners have to always be aware of competition. Anything with a big pay day is hard and risky.

bryris

All very valid points.

I will admit to everyone who cares to hear it that I have gotten pretty bitter lately and need to change my viewpoint a bit. I am about as disappointed as they come in what has transpired in my professional development as regards being a professional pilot. I am very disheartened about the future of this profession and find it difficult to reconcile my financial and family needs with a career that I have dreamed about for years and years. I thought I had hit something good when I got hired back in 2007 and had planned out exactly how I hoped things would go, even with a conservative lean. Needless to say, where I am now doesn't even close to resemble what I had pictured. And I find it a struggle to think that when I do score another flying job, I've got to start over from step 1.

But life is all about making lemonade, right?

I am studying for school all the time trying to finish up a professional certification and I am in front of the computer all the time, so I use this board to vent my professional frustrations to everyone. All it does is drag down morale and make me look like an ass in an industry that consists of a small group (though it doesn't seem that way at times). I am going to do some soul searching and see if I can't make an attitude adjustment in myself.

I really do enjoy this profession. I consider my accomplishments (still few by many standards) in aviation to be my greatest source of pride.

SilkBra

After 9/11 I was not the happiest person to talk to either. I hated seeing all the ads in flight magazines that said the airlines were hiring. They just leave the same ads in there for months at a time. In fact it is still like that now. I wasn't thrilled when we went into Iraq in 2003 as it slowed everything down in the industry.

It is amazing when hiring does open up just how wide open it gets and how fast. I think when Continental began hiring in 2005 for the first time after 2001 the initial hires were possibly going to see the left seat within 3 years. Not sure how many got that or kept it, but the speed of that is pretty wild.

contrail67

It really should not be taboo if he is really glad he left......maybe it is taboo because he is upset he got furloughed.