H.R.3371 The Actual Bill
08-05-2009, 01:27 PM
#81
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I agree it would take reregulation for congress to even think of being able to set a payrate, but couldnt they be within their rights to set a min bar for 121 pilots. Kinda like there is a minimum wage for all other job descriptions. Mabye say that all 121 pilots need 1500/ATP/ and must be paid at least 30K first year?? Im just thinking out loud. It would still be up to us to negotiate our own CBA's but companys couldnt go below a certain level on pay? Any Ideas?
Where did you get that idea? Congress is never going to set a pay rate. That would go against everything big companies pay lobbyist for.
08-05-2009, 02:54 PM
#82
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I agree it would take reregulation for congress to even think of being able to set a payrate, but couldnt they be within their rights to set a min bar for 121 pilots. Kinda like there is a minimum wage for all other job descriptions. Mabye say that all 121 pilots need 1500/ATP/ and must be paid at least 30K first year?? Im just thinking out loud. It would still be up to us to negotiate our own CBA's but companys couldnt go below a certain level on pay? Any Ideas?
- Very, very hard to get past the industry groups ATA, RAA, etc).
- The only possible argument which holds water is this: Pilots should be paid enough so they are not distracted by basic financial issues (food, rent) and the need for outside employment. This would be a safety argument, but it has one huge gaping hole: There are plenty of other safety sensitive jobs, all of whom would also want guaranteed compensation and work rules (truckers, paramedics, etc). Congress would know better than to open that can of worms.
- There is no precedent for a higher minimum wage for a particular profession.
I think that higher entry level standards would drive market economics in the right direction. Eventually.
08-05-2009, 04:52 PM
#83
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Too many hurdles I think.
- Very, very hard to get past the industry groups ATA, RAA, etc).
- The only possible argument which holds water is this: Pilots should be paid enough so they are not distracted by basic financial issues (food, rent) and the need for outside employment. This would be a safety argument, but it has one huge gaping hole: There are plenty of other safety sensitive jobs, all of whom would also want guaranteed compensation and work rules (truckers, paramedics, etc). Congress would know better than to open that can of worms.
- There is no precedent for a higher minimum wage for a particular profession.
I think that higher entry level standards would drive market economics in the right direction. Eventually.
- Very, very hard to get past the industry groups ATA, RAA, etc).
- The only possible argument which holds water is this: Pilots should be paid enough so they are not distracted by basic financial issues (food, rent) and the need for outside employment. This would be a safety argument, but it has one huge gaping hole: There are plenty of other safety sensitive jobs, all of whom would also want guaranteed compensation and work rules (truckers, paramedics, etc). Congress would know better than to open that can of worms.
- There is no precedent for a higher minimum wage for a particular profession.
I think that higher entry level standards would drive market economics in the right direction. Eventually.
08-05-2009, 07:27 PM
#84
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Position: EMB 145 CPT
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I do agree with what you posted, but I think we all know that there is more to this story of pilot pay, when you factor in duty days, ground stops, and such we make way less than the federally mandated minimum wage, so My brain keeps saying the government should say that this job requires an analysis comparison, of averages of time that pilots are on duty compared with flight time, and if they applied the federal minimum wage standard, I think they could come up with a figure that no airline would be allowed to go below during the CBA process. I'm not sure Im phrasing this right, do you get my point??
08-05-2009, 11:01 PM
#85
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"the agency will try to educate members of Congress to prove to them that quality of training is more important than quantity."
True....but lets face it, we all make better decisions with increased hours, this usually parallels increased experience. Compare the decision making and experience of a 300 hour pilot and a 1500 hour pilot, there is no doubt the 1500 hour pilot can make a better decision, simply based upon the increase in experience at the yoke.
08-05-2009, 11:42 PM
#87
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"the agency will try to educate members of Congress to prove to them that quality of training is more important than quantity."
True....but lets face it, we all make better decisions with increased hours, this usually parallels increased experience. Compare the decision making and experience of a 300 hour pilot and a 1500 hour pilot, there is no doubt the 1500 hour pilot can make a better decision, simply based upon the increase in experience at the yoke.
True....but lets face it, we all make better decisions with increased hours, this usually parallels increased experience. Compare the decision making and experience of a 300 hour pilot and a 1500 hour pilot, there is no doubt the 1500 hour pilot can make a better decision, simply based upon the increase in experience at the yoke.
The real definition of experiance is learning a lesson from the mistakes that don't kill you. I agree more hours means more decisions made, means more hard lessons learned= more experianced pilot
08-06-2009, 06:27 AM
#88
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08-06-2009, 06:37 AM
#89
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I just thought it would be helpful to know that in regards to what you said here, "if they applied the federal minimum wage standard, I think they could come up with a figure that no airline would be allowed to go below during the CBA process." I was just thinking out loud.
Got it
.......edited for the number of characters ( no not the ones that hang out on APC
)
08-06-2009, 07:50 AM
#90
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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I do agree with what you posted, but I think we all know that there is more to this story of pilot pay, when you factor in duty days, ground stops, and such we make way less than the federally mandated minimum wage, so My brain keeps saying the government should say that this job requires an analysis comparison, of averages of time that pilots are on duty compared with flight time, and if they applied the federal minimum wage standard, I think they could come up with a figure that no airline would be allowed to go below during the CBA process. I'm not sure Im phrasing this right, do you get my point??
I think union carriers are exempt from minimum wage, due to collective bargaining (they don't want to interfere with the senior captains' ability to profit from throwing junior folks under the bus).
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