H.R.3371 The Actual Bill
07-30-2009, 12:41 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Middle Seat
Posts: 1,230
I respectfully disagree with you. Remember the shortage two or three years ago? Junior assignments and open time pay went to 200% at some carriers. I specifically remember hearing one story where one guy refused to do a trip unless they gave him triple pay. Also, certain carriers were offering a bonus program for aircraft qualified crewmembers.
Keep in mind this was back in the day when they had trouble filling seats with 250 hours wonders. With that said, when this legislation passes and the need for crewmembers happens again, these special offers to employees will come back again, but it will not be enough. Pay will have to increase to attract crewmembers. Ticket prices will have to eventually go up.
The race will change.. it won't be the race to the bottom anymore; it will be the race to running an airline most efficiently with limited resources.
Keep in mind this was back in the day when they had trouble filling seats with 250 hours wonders. With that said, when this legislation passes and the need for crewmembers happens again, these special offers to employees will come back again, but it will not be enough. Pay will have to increase to attract crewmembers. Ticket prices will have to eventually go up.
The race will change.. it won't be the race to the bottom anymore; it will be the race to running an airline most efficiently with limited resources.
07-30-2009, 12:43 PM
#32
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
When hiring resumes in 2012, 3 years from now all "prospective crew members" will need an ATP certificate. How the heck is any regional paying $20,000/year going to find an individual wanting to work for that rate?
2012 will begin the flush of regional pilots to the majors leaving regional airlines with nothing left and no qualified pilots to hire. Looks like they are going to need to raise the bar significantly.
2012 will begin the flush of regional pilots to the majors leaving regional airlines with nothing left and no qualified pilots to hire. Looks like they are going to need to raise the bar significantly.
07-30-2009, 12:49 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,032
I agree with this, but can we change your $40,000 to at least $80,000? That's about the minimum to support a family these days. Personally, I think it should be $100,000.
That's one way to do it. Or the CEOs can take a pay cut!
07-30-2009, 07:33 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
I can see that shyster at ATP doing the math now. I am sure he'll have some great new rates posted once this goes through.
07-30-2009, 07:38 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
As I wrote earlier, anyone who thinks pay is going to increase due to this is mistaken. The only way that will occur is if the airlines significantly increase ticket prices. Considering US airlines compete on price and we're going through a tough recession, that's not likely to happen ever.
07-30-2009, 10:20 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Slinger
Posts: 316
EXACTLY, I knew this would cost us money. Not like it's going to matter to some schmuck in govt. My company is not going to spend the money. But I, like many of you patiently waiting for the left seat with over 4000 hours are now going to have to go out and spend the money to get checked out and retrained in a Seminole to get your atp in an airplane you don't even fly. Might as well just go get the 73 type while we are at it.
I can see that shyster at ATP doing the math now. I am sure he'll have some great new rates posted once this goes through.
I can see that shyster at ATP doing the math now. I am sure he'll have some great new rates posted once this goes through.
I don't think that will apply to anybody currently flying for any airline. I'm sure it would be given on the next PC. If not, the guys junior to me can plan on moving up one spot because I sure as h*ll don't plan on paying for an ATP on this salary
07-31-2009, 05:52 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
So it looks like all currently employed pilots below the ATP minumums will be grandfathered in, but I'm unsure about anyone hired post implementation of the bill. In other words, can someone be hired after passage with less than ATP minimums and then obtain ATP within three years?
Nobody is grandfathered. It requires ALL 121 airline pilots to hold an ATP three years after the law is passed.... that gives the low time new hires some time to go get their PIC time up enough to get the license and keep their job.
07-31-2009, 06:28 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: CFI
Posts: 416
What you wrote is what I meant the term "grandfathered" to mean. No one is going to be sent to the street because of this bill. I guess the big question is what doesn it mean for those hired, assuming that happens, between the time the bill passes and the three year date? My reading is it allows a grace period that allows airlines to hire those without ATP's as long as they get an ATP before the three year period runs out.
07-31-2009, 06:40 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: ERJ CAPT
Posts: 227
Pilots are such saps!
You guys are focusing on all the wrong things.
Focus on Section 6. database requirements.
This stuff is career ending, or should I say career stopping!
Database to incude incidents of discipline. How about illness or medical backgroud.
What this would mean, the way I read it, is an airline (read major) would have get information on your sick calls, disciplinary hearings, possibly FMLA, etc. etc.
In other words, you'll either have a choice of flying ill, or taking the chance that all those records will be available to a prospective employer. Do what scheduling says, or that hearing before the CPO will be available to that carrier you always hoped to work for. HR 3371 needs some major protections for careers and safety. I hope your ready and willing to get into the pit over this one!
I'm sure that the airlines are just drooling over some of this stuff.
Onfinal
You guys are focusing on all the wrong things.
Focus on Section 6. database requirements.
This stuff is career ending, or should I say career stopping!
Database to incude incidents of discipline. How about illness or medical backgroud.
What this would mean, the way I read it, is an airline (read major) would have get information on your sick calls, disciplinary hearings, possibly FMLA, etc. etc.
In other words, you'll either have a choice of flying ill, or taking the chance that all those records will be available to a prospective employer. Do what scheduling says, or that hearing before the CPO will be available to that carrier you always hoped to work for. HR 3371 needs some major protections for careers and safety. I hope your ready and willing to get into the pit over this one!
I'm sure that the airlines are just drooling over some of this stuff.
Onfinal
07-31-2009, 06:53 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 599
Pilots are such saps!
You guys are focusing on all the wrong things.
Focus on Section 6. database requirements.
This stuff is career ending, or should I say career stopping!
Database to incude incidents of discipline. How about illness or medical backgroud.
What this would mean, the way I read it, is an airline (read major) would have get information on your sick calls, disciplinary hearings, possibly FMLA, etc. etc.
In other words, you'll either have a choice of flying ill, or taking the chance that all those records will be available to a prospective employer. Do what scheduling says, or that hearing before the CPO will be available to that carrier you always hoped to work for. HR 3371 needs some major protections for careers and safety. I hope your ready and willing to get into the pit over this one!
I'm sure that the airlines are just drooling over some of this stuff.
Onfinal
You guys are focusing on all the wrong things.
Focus on Section 6. database requirements.
This stuff is career ending, or should I say career stopping!
Database to incude incidents of discipline. How about illness or medical backgroud.
What this would mean, the way I read it, is an airline (read major) would have get information on your sick calls, disciplinary hearings, possibly FMLA, etc. etc.
In other words, you'll either have a choice of flying ill, or taking the chance that all those records will be available to a prospective employer. Do what scheduling says, or that hearing before the CPO will be available to that carrier you always hoped to work for. HR 3371 needs some major protections for careers and safety. I hope your ready and willing to get into the pit over this one!
I'm sure that the airlines are just drooling over some of this stuff.
Onfinal
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