H.R.3371 The Actual Bill
10-15-2009, 04:06 AM
#131
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 874
Has a map of the voting breakdown ~ House Vote 778 - H.R.3371: On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass, as Amended - NYTimes.com
Find it interesting that all of the Nays were Republican and were in areas with minimal aviation activity. For instance Utah district 1.
I support the concept/intent behind the bill and would be interested in knowing why they disagree..not out of a desire for an argument but perhaps they have unaddressed concerns. Either way I plan on contacting each of them and finding out.
Find it interesting that all of the Nays were Republican and were in areas with minimal aviation activity. For instance Utah district 1.
I support the concept/intent behind the bill and would be interested in knowing why they disagree..not out of a desire for an argument but perhaps they have unaddressed concerns. Either way I plan on contacting each of them and finding out.
10-15-2009, 04:12 AM
#132
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
Oh wah! Cripes, go back fifteen years and you had to have 2500 hours for a regional to even look at you. Pilots hired at that point in time brought some real world experience to the cockpit and had flown in icing and thunderstorms for multiple seasons.
I'm not quite sure where this entitlement attitude comes from, but aside from Kit Darby and his inbred counterparts at pilot mills, I've met very few people affiliated with aviation who sell sunshine on how easy life as a pilot is. Either you never asked the question, didn't listen when you were told, or you simply chose to believe that the days of 300 hour jet FO's and 1500 hour captains were here to stay forever. In any event, the past few years has been a historical aberration (and hopefully will remain so in many aspects, including pay). Hiring standards need to be raised for a number of reasons, and the morons who run airlines are too shortsighted to do what is ultimately in their best long-term interests. Even if it's somewhat misguided, congress is actually doing something close to the right thing here.
I'm not quite sure where this entitlement attitude comes from, but aside from Kit Darby and his inbred counterparts at pilot mills, I've met very few people affiliated with aviation who sell sunshine on how easy life as a pilot is. Either you never asked the question, didn't listen when you were told, or you simply chose to believe that the days of 300 hour jet FO's and 1500 hour captains were here to stay forever. In any event, the past few years has been a historical aberration (and hopefully will remain so in many aspects, including pay). Hiring standards need to be raised for a number of reasons, and the morons who run airlines are too shortsighted to do what is ultimately in their best long-term interests. Even if it's somewhat misguided, congress is actually doing something close to the right thing here.
Pilots are paid to do a job, but with todays electric jets that job can be performed by just about anyone on a day to day basis. When it counts is when something goes wrong, experience is the key here. Having the experience to assume command if the PIC becomes incapacitated or being able to handle to emergency at hand with multiple system failures come with experience.
10-15-2009, 04:15 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 647
Oh wah! Cripes, go back fifteen years and you had to have 2500 hours for a regional to even look at you. Pilots hired at that point in time brought some real world experience to the cockpit and had flown in icing and thunderstorms for multiple seasons.
I'm not quite sure where this entitlement attitude comes from, but aside from Kit Darby and his inbred counterparts at pilot mills, I've met very few people affiliated with aviation who sell sunshine on how easy life as a pilot is. Either you never asked the question, didn't listen when you were told, or you simply chose to believe that the days of 300 hour jet FO's and 1500 hour captains were here to stay forever. In any event, the past few years has been a historical aberration (and hopefully will remain so in many aspects, including pay). Hiring standards need to be raised for a number of reasons, and the morons who run airlines are too shortsighted to do what is ultimately in their best long-term interests. Even if it's somewhat misguided, congress is actually doing something close to the right thing here.
I'm not quite sure where this entitlement attitude comes from, but aside from Kit Darby and his inbred counterparts at pilot mills, I've met very few people affiliated with aviation who sell sunshine on how easy life as a pilot is. Either you never asked the question, didn't listen when you were told, or you simply chose to believe that the days of 300 hour jet FO's and 1500 hour captains were here to stay forever. In any event, the past few years has been a historical aberration (and hopefully will remain so in many aspects, including pay). Hiring standards need to be raised for a number of reasons, and the morons who run airlines are too shortsighted to do what is ultimately in their best long-term interests. Even if it's somewhat misguided, congress is actually doing something close to the right thing here.
10-15-2009, 05:24 AM
#134
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 112
Someone was asking for what the Senator from Florida was able to get into the House Bill. Here is the section added and also a link to the entire Bill that was passed yesterday. Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
SEC. 11. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
SEC. 11. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
10-15-2009, 09:43 AM
#135
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
I personally don't think you have the right to complain about salary at the regional, until you are actually here at the regional. Then at least you can fight for something better. Right now you are only part of the problem, not the solution.
10-15-2009, 10:17 AM
#136
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by subrat
This is great news! I get to spend another 3 years instructing making around 9k a year. So I can look forward to making 20k a year when I get hired by a regional as a ATP rated pilot.
if you require 3 years more to obtain the ATP, then use it to your advantage. the ones that have been hired with 250 - 500 hours are problem pilots. one for lack of experience (you dont go to a regional to get experience, you should have it already) and two, attitude of your entitled and deserve better than others around you. use the 3 years to mature, because you statement proves my point.
This is great news! I get to spend another 3 years instructing making around 9k a year. So I can look forward to making 20k a year when I get hired by a regional as a ATP rated pilot.
if you require 3 years more to obtain the ATP, then use it to your advantage. the ones that have been hired with 250 - 500 hours are problem pilots. one for lack of experience (you dont go to a regional to get experience, you should have it already) and two, attitude of your entitled and deserve better than others around you. use the 3 years to mature, because you statement proves my point.
10-15-2009, 05:20 PM
#137
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Banker....UGH!
Posts: 75
Well said! I know that having to gain experience is tough especially when the smell of jet-A exhaust is in the air, but passengers deserve it. The place to learn about our ATC system, basic flying skills, fundamental judgment, and weather is not wth paying passengers.... Requiring an ATP and the experience to go with it is a brief time compared to ones career. As mentioned above not too long ago 2500-3000 hours was the min to even have your resume considered by a regional and that was to fly a small turboprop not a regional jet.
Pilots are paid to do a job, but with todays electric jets that job can be performed by just about anyone on a day to day basis. When it counts is when something goes wrong, experience is the key here. Having the experience to assume command if the PIC becomes incapacitated or being able to handle to emergency at hand with multiple system failures come with experience.
Pilots are paid to do a job, but with todays electric jets that job can be performed by just about anyone on a day to day basis. When it counts is when something goes wrong, experience is the key here. Having the experience to assume command if the PIC becomes incapacitated or being able to handle to emergency at hand with multiple system failures come with experience.
When I graduated from mother rucker, I had less that 200 hours but i could fly a multi million dollar helicopter under less than favorable conditions and while getting shot at.... The requirement to have both pilots ATP'd and a minimum of 1500 hours did nothing but empower management when the authority to the PIC was erroded. And as for training where else are you going to train, but on the ground with multiple failures. Our training in the U.S. is the best in the world! Why else does the world send their pilots here for training. I know so they will go back to their country and become CFI's, right??? Give me a break!
10-15-2009, 05:32 PM
#138
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
HRW: More hours give you more experience. When you have 2000 hours, you will be much better than you are now. Every pilot will be better with more hours. It will vary, of course, depending on the type of hours flown.
You also can't compare the mil pilot with the regional pilots. To be a regional pilot last year, all you needed was basic health, some money, or a loan. With this requirement, it WILL weed out a number of the type of pilots who were hired last year with low time, and it will improve the capabilities of those who stick with it, when they show up at SkyWest witht their fresh ATP in hand.
I was a good pilot when I got through with the AF program in ABQ (follow-on to Rucker), but I am a LOT better now, with more hours of experience.
cliff
NBO
HRW: More hours give you more experience. When you have 2000 hours, you will be much better than you are now. Every pilot will be better with more hours. It will vary, of course, depending on the type of hours flown.
You also can't compare the mil pilot with the regional pilots. To be a regional pilot last year, all you needed was basic health, some money, or a loan. With this requirement, it WILL weed out a number of the type of pilots who were hired last year with low time, and it will improve the capabilities of those who stick with it, when they show up at SkyWest witht their fresh ATP in hand.
I was a good pilot when I got through with the AF program in ABQ (follow-on to Rucker), but I am a LOT better now, with more hours of experience.
cliff
NBO
10-15-2009, 05:38 PM
#139
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
You mean that pilots flying today have had numerous failures and lived to tell about it? How about the military pilots when do they get to fly multi million dollar super sonic fighters? I know when they have thousands of hours. Your whole argument about experience and hours is b.s. Every hear about Cali Colombia? How many hours did those pilots have???? Let me guess thousands. The argument that experience comes with hours is a joke, years of experience comes from a safety and CRM and professionalism. The pilots of Colgan's accident were downwind to the ILS jabbering like monkeys about everything except what was going on with the plane. I have over 1200 hours in U.S. Army Rotory wing and 800 of them in NVG's. But according to the FAA I can only count 25% of them.
When I graduated from mother rucker, I had less that 200 hours but i could fly a multi million dollar helicopter under less than favorable conditions and while getting shot at.... The requirement to have both pilots ATP'd and a minimum of 1500 hours did nothing but empower management when the authority to the PIC was erroded. And as for training where else are you going to train, but on the ground with multiple failures. Our training in the U.S. is the best in the world! Why else does the world send their pilots here for training. I know so they will go back to their country and become CFI's, right??? Give me a break!
When I graduated from mother rucker, I had less that 200 hours but i could fly a multi million dollar helicopter under less than favorable conditions and while getting shot at.... The requirement to have both pilots ATP'd and a minimum of 1500 hours did nothing but empower management when the authority to the PIC was erroded. And as for training where else are you going to train, but on the ground with multiple failures. Our training in the U.S. is the best in the world! Why else does the world send their pilots here for training. I know so they will go back to their country and become CFI's, right??? Give me a break!
As to your statement of "The requirement to have both pilots ATP'd and a minimum of 1500 hours did nothing but empower management when the authority to the PIC was erroded." I am not sure what you mean.... How did management get empowered by being told they can no longer hire low time pilots?
10-15-2009, 05:49 PM
#140
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
I believe that a company only has access to 5 years of records. This bill, I believe, would have ALL aviation records accessible to the hiring company.
Oh, and EVERYONE in 121 would have to have an ATP within 3 years. The guys currently flying without an ATP, could keep flying for 3 years, and then would have to quit, if they had not gotten their ATPs by that time.
cliff
NBO
I believe that a company only has access to 5 years of records. This bill, I believe, would have ALL aviation records accessible to the hiring company.
Oh, and EVERYONE in 121 would have to have an ATP within 3 years. The guys currently flying without an ATP, could keep flying for 3 years, and then would have to quit, if they had not gotten their ATPs by that time.
cliff
NBO
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