Those that commute on UAL, MUST READ
07-17-2009, 02:44 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 6,009
IMHO any airline that profits from it's employees are on the road to becoming a bottom feeding operation.
To date, cuts in pay, reduction in health benefits, cut backs in retirements, now pay to commute.
What's next? Co share the expense for hotel rooms and crew meals??? Reduction in Per Diem?
To date, cuts in pay, reduction in health benefits, cut backs in retirements, now pay to commute.
What's next? Co share the expense for hotel rooms and crew meals??? Reduction in Per Diem?
07-25-2009, 03:52 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-767 CA
Posts: 103
FYI- both ASA and Skywest have unlimited jumpseat agreements with Delta. If you are an ASA or Skywest pilot (or any Delta Connection pilot) and the gate agent is refusing you access to a jumpseat on Delta (cabin or flightdeck) you need to first talk to the PIC of the Delta flight.
If the PIC can't be reached, or doesn't have the 'stuff' to tell the gate agent that the PIC is the one who grants jumpseat access, not the gate agent, you need to contact your jumpseat committee chairman.
The fee on Delta is for non-revenue travel. A pilot also has the ability to jumpseat. Different agreement, different rules, and the inability to non-rev doesn't preclude a pilot's ability to jumpseat, be it in the cabin or the flightdeck. Yes, it's complicated by the way Delta Connection pilots are usually listed (they're on-line, not off-line, which is using CASS), and it's really probably worth the fee just to avoid the hassle of an ignorant gate agent, but, by the principle of it, the fee is not required to jumpseat.
If you don't understand this (especially if you're a Captain, so its your job to grant jumpseat access on your own aircraft) please contact your jumpseat committee.
Sorry for the thread creep. Back to the thought of United's unlimited domestic jumpseat policy changing.
If the PIC can't be reached, or doesn't have the 'stuff' to tell the gate agent that the PIC is the one who grants jumpseat access, not the gate agent, you need to contact your jumpseat committee chairman.
The fee on Delta is for non-revenue travel. A pilot also has the ability to jumpseat. Different agreement, different rules, and the inability to non-rev doesn't preclude a pilot's ability to jumpseat, be it in the cabin or the flightdeck. Yes, it's complicated by the way Delta Connection pilots are usually listed (they're on-line, not off-line, which is using CASS), and it's really probably worth the fee just to avoid the hassle of an ignorant gate agent, but, by the principle of it, the fee is not required to jumpseat.
If you don't understand this (especially if you're a Captain, so its your job to grant jumpseat access on your own aircraft) please contact your jumpseat committee.
Sorry for the thread creep. Back to the thought of United's unlimited domestic jumpseat policy changing.
While you are technically correct on the unlimited jumpseating policies, you are incorrect in its application. The DAL computer system will not allow more than one (or two depending on the number of jumpseats in the cockpit) jumpseat card to be printed. If you are a DCI carrier pilot in order to get a cabin seat assigned you MUST have paid your annual fee.
So, if a Comair (for example) pilot asks for "the jumpseat" on a plane with one jumpseat, and a Skywest pilot walks up and does the same, the computer will automatically transfer the skywest pilot to the non rev list....as soon as that occurs the computer looks for an active PPR, if the skywest pilot has not paid their annual fee ($200 in most cases) they will be denied boarding. This occurs EVEN ON OUR OWN AIRPLANES! if say an FAA or LCA is in the seat already.
Hope that clears it up........
07-27-2009, 06:27 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
Here is the reply from the United MEC,,
To: United Pilots
From: MEC Jumpseat Committee
Captain Bob Spadea, Chairman
Captain Frank Palombi, Vice Chairman
Re: MEC Jumpseat Committee Update
UAX Pilots and Pass ChargesUnited Airlines and all UAX managements have signed an agreement whereby all UAX employees that occupy a cabin seat on any UAX flight will be charged an associated fee. It is also expected, but not written in this agreement, that UAX pilots would also be charged for a seat while traveling under the provisions of unlimited jumpseat travel on their own carrier, as well as other UAX flights.
Needless to say, the UAX pilots are outraged with this agreement. The UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee is also in agreement that there be no charges levied for a jumpseat, flight deck or cabin. UAX pilots jumpseat agreements allow for unlimited jumpseats to all offline carriers as well as their own pilots. We fully support these UAX carriers in their efforts to exercise their agreements to their fullest .However, we cannot negotiate on their behalf, nor can we represent them in discussions with their respective managements. We will do everything we can to support these UAX pilots with their endeavors.
With this new policy being implemented, there may be some disgruntled UAX pilots who will accuse the UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee and UA flight ops of being responsible for this policy change. Flights ops and your Jumpseat Committee are in no way responsible for its content. If you jumpseat on a UAX flight, you may encounter a UAX pilot who that may want to deny you a jumpseat. We have not seen any correspondence from the UAX jumpseat chairpersons that they would deny our pilots a jumpseat because of this new policy. Therefore, these pilots may be acting on their own behalf. Should you encounter a denial as a result of this policy change, we ask that you contact the Jumpseat Committee as soon as possible. We will not tolerate this conduct and will make the UAX Jumpseat Committee chairs aware of this immediately.
Where United Airlines and the UAX managements have entered into this agreement, it is incumbent upon the UAX pilot groups to confront their managements with these policy changes and correct them as appropriate. Your Jumpseat Committee will offer any assistance it can to the UAX committee chairs in getting this policy, as it pertains to jumpseating, reversed.
To: United Pilots
From: MEC Jumpseat Committee
Captain Bob Spadea, Chairman
Captain Frank Palombi, Vice Chairman
Re: MEC Jumpseat Committee Update
UAX Pilots and Pass ChargesUnited Airlines and all UAX managements have signed an agreement whereby all UAX employees that occupy a cabin seat on any UAX flight will be charged an associated fee. It is also expected, but not written in this agreement, that UAX pilots would also be charged for a seat while traveling under the provisions of unlimited jumpseat travel on their own carrier, as well as other UAX flights.
Needless to say, the UAX pilots are outraged with this agreement. The UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee is also in agreement that there be no charges levied for a jumpseat, flight deck or cabin. UAX pilots jumpseat agreements allow for unlimited jumpseats to all offline carriers as well as their own pilots. We fully support these UAX carriers in their efforts to exercise their agreements to their fullest .However, we cannot negotiate on their behalf, nor can we represent them in discussions with their respective managements. We will do everything we can to support these UAX pilots with their endeavors.
With this new policy being implemented, there may be some disgruntled UAX pilots who will accuse the UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee and UA flight ops of being responsible for this policy change. Flights ops and your Jumpseat Committee are in no way responsible for its content. If you jumpseat on a UAX flight, you may encounter a UAX pilot who that may want to deny you a jumpseat. We have not seen any correspondence from the UAX jumpseat chairpersons that they would deny our pilots a jumpseat because of this new policy. Therefore, these pilots may be acting on their own behalf. Should you encounter a denial as a result of this policy change, we ask that you contact the Jumpseat Committee as soon as possible. We will not tolerate this conduct and will make the UAX Jumpseat Committee chairs aware of this immediately.
Where United Airlines and the UAX managements have entered into this agreement, it is incumbent upon the UAX pilot groups to confront their managements with these policy changes and correct them as appropriate. Your Jumpseat Committee will offer any assistance it can to the UAX committee chairs in getting this policy, as it pertains to jumpseating, reversed.
07-27-2009, 10:15 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,001
PIC authority, flushed down the toilet
Here is the reply from the United MEC,,
United Airlines and all UAX managements have signed an agreement whereby all UAX employees that occupy a cabin seat on any UAX flight will be charged an associated fee. It is also expected, but not written in this agreement, that UAX pilots would also be charged for a seat while traveling under the provisions of unlimited jumpseat travel on their own carrier, as well as other UAX flights.
Needless to say, the UAX pilots are outraged with this agreement. The UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee is also in agreement that there be no charges levied for a jumpseat, flight deck or cabin. UAX pilots jumpseat agreements allow for unlimited jumpseats to all offline carriers as well as their own pilots. We fully support these UAX carriers in their efforts to exercise their agreements to their fullest .However, we cannot negotiate on their behalf, nor can we represent them in discussions with their respective managements. We will do everything we can to support these UAX pilots with their endeavors. . . .
United Airlines and all UAX managements have signed an agreement whereby all UAX employees that occupy a cabin seat on any UAX flight will be charged an associated fee. It is also expected, but not written in this agreement, that UAX pilots would also be charged for a seat while traveling under the provisions of unlimited jumpseat travel on their own carrier, as well as other UAX flights.
Needless to say, the UAX pilots are outraged with this agreement. The UAL-MEC Jumpseat Committee is also in agreement that there be no charges levied for a jumpseat, flight deck or cabin. UAX pilots jumpseat agreements allow for unlimited jumpseats to all offline carriers as well as their own pilots. We fully support these UAX carriers in their efforts to exercise their agreements to their fullest .However, we cannot negotiate on their behalf, nor can we represent them in discussions with their respective managements. We will do everything we can to support these UAX pilots with their endeavors. . . .
Same thing. On-line pilots jumpseating = paying a fee to jumpseat. The unlimited jumpseat agreement UAL management signed with each UAX carrier's management? That is now superseded by a new non-rev agreement, one that doesn't even mention jumpseating, but will impose non-rev rules on jumpseaters anyway.
Did I miss the part in the UAL memo that says: "You, as the PIC, will be the final authority as to the jumpseat. We worked hard to secure unlimited jumpseats for our fellow pilots, and we will not allow UAL management to re-write our jumpseat agreements" - the UAL MEC was a party to the unlimited UAX jumpseat agreements, after all. No, instead, we get . . . "we will do everything we can to support"; words are great, but there is no actual written guidance to UAL pilots on how a UAL PIC can support the UAX pilots. Thus, UAL PIC's can be reading this memo as the gate agent and the UAL computer system charge UAX pilots for jumpseats.
Originally Posted by UAL MEC
Should you encounter a denial as a result of this policy change, we ask that you contact the Jumpseat Committee as soon as possible. We will not tolerate this conduct and will make the UAX Jumpseat Committee chairs aware of this immediately.
---
There was a time when a jumpseat was a request made from a pilot to the PIC of the aircraft. The gate agent merely assisted the PIC in this process. Now we have MEC's allowing the authority to control the jumpseat to transfer to the gate agent and a computer under the auspice of 'security'. There is NO security risk allowing a pilot in a secure area access to speak with the PIC in the same manner any passenger would have access, nor is there any reason to treat jumpseat applicants as non-revs.
I highly encourage all Delta Connection and United Express pilots impacted by this to contact your jumpseat committees, and, for those of you that are ALPA, contact the ALPA National Jumpseat Chairman. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
MM, this is typical BS. GK would have never stood for this.
07-27-2009, 10:25 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
I agree that is some seriously weak coffee there. The problem being that I as the PIC won't even know about a jump seater until it's to late as they have to negotiate the CS agent before I ever get a chance to talk to them.
By the time they get to me they've already been charged. IT is BS and I will do all that I can to see that it is fixed. I can guarantee you however that if I have any say in it no JS'er will ever pay to ride on my airplane.
By the time they get to me they've already been charged. IT is BS and I will do all that I can to see that it is fixed. I can guarantee you however that if I have any say in it no JS'er will ever pay to ride on my airplane.
07-28-2009, 08:35 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,818
I've begun making a trip up the jetbridge immediately following block-in...I make damn sure that the gate agent knows that no jumpseater will be charged, and that they will be accomodated, regardless of what "operations" may say. Please do the same, and get the word out that the Jumpseat is no tool for use at the ground staff's discretion.
07-28-2009, 01:23 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 849
no, its the regional guys that fly under united express. we're being charged to nonrev on united/uax, so i guess we were attempting to get around that by jumpseating instead of nonreving... but apparently now they're charging us to jumpseat too. SUCKS for commuters.
07-28-2009, 02:35 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 390
This is just yet another whipping that ALPA is taking from UAL and DAL. I wonder if ALPA will just limp away to a corner somewhere after the beating or chew the arm off that's beating them. So far, just limp away has been their habit. Seems there's no end to the abuse that ALPA is willing to suffer. Just give it up, disband the union and save the dues for another giveback coming soon. 
07-28-2009, 03:52 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 325
According to what I understand it to be is that those airlines that do not have pass agreements (non rev benefits) with UAL.
- Only JS will be allowed up front for the amount of JS that are avail.
- UAL owns EVERY seat in the back and if there is room in the back and you are trying to JS, you MUST have paid your Non Rev benefits fee, OR have an ID90 for travel. Thus company policy only allows an OAL pilot to sit up front if there is not a seat in the back. THE BIG CATCH 22...
This is how it has been explained to us at SkyWest... There are a few that I have flown with that plan to deny the jumpseat to UAL commuters if this comes into play... But just like any controversy it seems that some that I have asked their opinion about while jumpseating just shrug their shoulders and say that it is wrong but what can we do, its what it is...
- Only JS will be allowed up front for the amount of JS that are avail.
- UAL owns EVERY seat in the back and if there is room in the back and you are trying to JS, you MUST have paid your Non Rev benefits fee, OR have an ID90 for travel. Thus company policy only allows an OAL pilot to sit up front if there is not a seat in the back. THE BIG CATCH 22...
This is how it has been explained to us at SkyWest... There are a few that I have flown with that plan to deny the jumpseat to UAL commuters if this comes into play... But just like any controversy it seems that some that I have asked their opinion about while jumpseating just shrug their shoulders and say that it is wrong but what can we do, its what it is...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
